Khadgar

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Where is he? How can he remain neutral after the Burning of Teldrassil? This is some bad writing.

The Kirin Tor should be in this fight, smiting the heck outta Forsaken and Goblins, at the very least.
Much like the Vindicaar, I'd take it that Khadgar does not fit in with the story they "want to tell." He has been conveniently written out for the sake of parity - having Khadgar fight the Alliance after two expansions of him being Dadghar for both factions would be messy for the playerbase, even though it makes sense for him to oppose Sylvanas, if not the Horde.
Jaina and Khadgar take turns being the Alliance uber mage. We're not allowed more than one at a time.

Their middle names are Unique.
11/13/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Grandblade
Much like the Vindicaar, I'd take it that Khadgar does not fit in with the story they "want to tell." He has been conveniently written out for the sake of parity - having Khadgar fight the Alliance after two expansions of him being Dadghar for both factions would be messy for the playerbase, even though it makes sense for him to oppose Sylvanas, if not the Horde.


Pretty much this.
11/13/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Grandblade
even though it makes sense for him to oppose Sylvanas, if not the Horde.


Why do people pretend that there's a difference between these two things?

Sylvanas isn't running around waging this war by her self. She has forces on the ground drawn from the entire Horde. You cannot fight her without fighting them.
11/13/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Solythn
11/13/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Grandblade
even though it makes sense for him to oppose Sylvanas, if not the Horde.


Why do people pretend that there's a difference between these two things?

Sylvanas isn't running around waging this war by her self. She has forces on the ground drawn from the entire Horde. You cannot fight her without fighting them.
There's literally a divergent path that allows Horde players to rebel against her, there's plenty reason to disassociate her from the Horde - at least part of it.
11/13/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Grandblade
There's literally a divergent path that allows Horde players to rebel against her, there's plenty reason to disassociate her from the Horde - at least part of it.

Actually, there isn't yet. There will be soon. Thanks for paying attention.

The Kirin Tor should be in this fight, smiting the heck outta Forsaken and Goblins, at the very least.

Speaking of paying attention, the last time we see Khadgar is in Silithus after the Horde and Alliance start to squabble over Azerite. He swears not to raise a fist against heroes of either side... Not after all we went through together to defeat the Burning Legion.

Instead he goes to study with Medivh in Karazhan to find a way to heal the wound in the world.

Which pretty much every other neutral party is actively doing at the moment.
11/13/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Mustakraken
Actually, there isn't yet. There will be soon. Thanks for paying attention.
That's nitpicking. Should we just stop talking about all 8.1 and 8.2 stuff because it isn't in game yet?

Honestly dude, you gotta start picking your battles.
11/13/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Mustakraken
He swears not to raise a fist against heroes of either side... Not after all we went through together to defeat the Burning Legion.
This is before Teldrassil. The question is about why is he doing nothing AFTER Teldrassil - which is a fair question to ask.
11/13/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Grandblade
[quote="207683616510"]He swears not to raise a fist against heroes of either side... Not after all we went through together to defeat the Burning Legion.
This is before Teldrassil. The question is about why is he doing nothing AFTER Teldrassil - which is a fair question to ask.

Right. And his good friend Turalyon is leading a warfront against the Horde in Arathi. After Teldrassil, I could totally see him showing up here to help his friend and his allies.
11/13/2018 07:22 PMPosted by Zarles
Right. And his good friend Turalyon is leading a warfront against the Horde in Arathi. After Teldrassil, I could totally see him showing up here to help his friend and his allies.
His good friends Turalyon and Danath are defending Arathi. And his friend Alleria is involved in the War Campaign. I don't know where Kurdran is, but since Falstad and the Wildhammer are involved, I'd wager he's there too.

This was a real missed opportunity to finally reunite the Alliance Expedition once and for all.
That's nitpicking. Should we just stop talking about all 8.1 and 8.2 stuff because it isn't in game yet?

His point was that the Horde has been complicit with Sylvanas's actions up to this point. A random dialogue option in a quest that hasn't been released yet doesn't change that.

I know it's the Alliance storyline that all their woes can be laid at Sylvanas's feet, but the Horde are still their enemies and they are still carrying out her orders willingly.

Honestly dude, you gotta start picking your battles.

Why? All I have to do is look for you fumbling through logic and the english language.

This is before Teldrassil. The question is about why is he doing nothing AFTER Teldrassil - which is a fair question to ask.

And the answer is the same. He is in Karazhan, far removed from the war and dedicated to healing the world, not killing its heroes.
11/13/2018 07:24 PMPosted by Grandblade
11/13/2018 07:22 PMPosted by Zarles
Right. And his good friend Turalyon is leading a warfront against the Horde in Arathi. After Teldrassil, I could totally see him showing up here to help his friend and his allies.
His good friends Turalyon and Danath are defending Arathi. And his friend Alleria is involved in the War Campaign. I don't know where Kurdran is, but since Falstad and the Wildhammer are involved, I'd wager he's there too.

This was a real missed opportunity to finally reunite the Alliance Expedition once and for all.

I was really hoping for that, since he mentioned wanting to sit and grab a drink with the old gang back in Legion, right? Huge opportunity missed. I love those Alliance heroes.
11/13/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Mustakraken
His point was that the Horde has been complicit with Sylvanas's actions up to this point. A random dialogue option in a quest that hasn't been released yet doesn't change that.
No, it doesn't change that, but it does give credence to drawing a disconnect between her and a large portion of the Horde. My original statement was "it makes sense for him to oppose Sylvanas, if not the Horde." I named his opposition of the Horde as a whole as a possibility.
11/13/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Mustakraken
Why? All I have to do is look for you fumbling through logic and the english language.
You should trade that mask for a fedora.
11/13/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Mustakraken
And the answer is the same. He is in Karazhan, far removed from the war and dedicated to healing the world, not killing its heroes.
Nobody is asking where he is. We're asking why he's there. We get it. Healing the world, not wanting to raise blades against former friends, etc. The discussion is about why Teldrassil wasn't enough to change that.
My bet would be on him concerning first and foremost with the state of Azeroth along with groups like the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring.
11/13/2018 07:31 PMPosted by Grandblade
Nobody is asking where he is. We're asking why he's there. We get it. Healing the world, not wanting to raise blades against former friends, etc. The discussion is about why Teldrassil wasn't enough to change that.

Why do you think it would be enough? He already said he's having no part in killing heroes on either side of the faction divide. How is that so hard to comprehend?
11/13/2018 07:31 PMPosted by Grandblade
Nobody is asking where he is. We're asking why he's there. We get it. Healing the world, not wanting to raise blades against former friends, etc. The discussion is about why Teldrassil wasn't enough to change that.


Writing him out of the story is lazy, cowardly and chess-piece. If The Horde are going to burn infants, blight, commit atrocities against the dead and generally twirl their mustache--if they're going to play villains--the world should act as though they're villains. And none of this following orders stuff, it got old 10 gleeful genocides ago.

And, if it happens to be the case that they don't want to be villains, why are they foisting it on them? Let alone at this absurd margin that confuses the story, damages characters and verisimilitude.
11/13/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Tomlyn
And, if it happens to be the case that they don't want to be villains, why are they foisting it on them? Let alone at this absurd margin that confuses the story, damages characters and verisimilitude.

Okay, yeah, that I can agree with. Unfortunately I think the 'why' there is the game is almost 14 years old and they've run through all the interesting villains, so guess who gets trotted out to be loot pinatas for the Alliance again!

The disgusting part is that they are acting like it's equal opportunity this go around despite making the Alliance the usual golden, can do no wrong, horribly mistreated victims again.
11/13/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Mustakraken
Why do you think it would be enough? He already said he's having no part in killing heroes on either side of the faction divide. How is that so hard to comprehend?
Again - this is BEFORE TELDRASSIL. An atrocity that resulted in catastrophic loss of life for his faction (because despite his neutrality, it's safe to say that Khadgar isn't still a primarily Alliance character). He won't raise his hand against former allies, but he'll stand on the sidelines as they burn to death. And that's not even taking into account the problems that arise from burning a world tree in the face of healing the world, but I won't get into that. It's a fair question to ask why he's not here.

You keep using terms like "How is that hard to comprehend?" or "Do you not understand?" when in actuality, you're the one grossly misinterpreting the debate at hand consistently
11/13/2018 07:42 PMPosted by Grandblade
Again - this is BEFORE TELDRASSIL. An atrocity that resulted in catastrophic loss of life for his faction (because despite his neutrality, it's safe to say that Khadgar isn't still a primarily Alliance character). He won't raise his hand against former allies, but he'll stand on the sidelines as they burn to death. And that's not even taking into account the problems that arise from burning a world tree in the face of healing the world, but I won't get into that. It's a fair question to ask why he's not here.

And the story has already answered WHY.

The burning of Teldrassil changes nothing

The destruction of Undercity changes nothing

The Alliance being down to recruiting farmers for the war effort changes nothing

Maybe he will show up when there is an enemy to deal with that ARE NOT the heroes he has sworn not to attack.

Maybe he'll show up to deal with Azshara and Nzoth. I kind of doubt it, but hey, who knows?

You keep using terms like "How is that hard to comprehend?" or "Do you not understand?" when in actuality, you're the one grossly misinterpreting the debate at hand consistently

There's no debate to be had. The answer is simple and has already been given. You're just wringing your hands and wondering why Dadghar isn't showing up to save the Alliance.

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