So I'm a rogue main and I made a feral.

Druid
Okay, so I'm going to start and say I love my rogue. I have mained my rogue since cataclysm(when I started playing wow) and usually I would play as sub. After sub got nerfed in both pvp and pve I kind of have lost the desire to play rogue and I have played when rogues were bad (believe it or not, example: MoP launch)

I'm being honest here, over the time I have played as a rogue there was one spec that has consistently felt like the bane of my existence. That spec would be feral druids, especially when they had faerie fire.

Still this thread isn't about this, it is about me trying feral. So far I have set up my keybindings and I'm amazed by the mobility and ability to stun and root. I can see the pros and cons between these two classes but I don't have a full understanding on ferals yet.

I'm just curious if there is any advice that can be given and also what are good talents to pick as a druid. I'm sure there is a lot of situational variables but I want to hear from the community.
Bean is one of the best feral's (before) and playing right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmEML7k1Qtg&t=22s
One of them, is trying to be us.. I never thought i'd see it, just be grateful ur overtuned class remains imbalanced.
Hey hey Inumi.

I switch back and forth between the two specs.
There's a number of changes incoming for 8.1that certainly help in your Feral's QoL with CP spent on Rip now scaling with time instead of power (like how Assassin works currently), but there is still a lot to consider when playing to get the most out of your dps.

Keep your bleeds up 100%. Use Tiger's Fury to make their snapshot more powerful. This is where certain buffs allow your bleeds to be stronger for their duration. An amazing way to track this is through a WeakAura here which I've ended up taking the snapshot information into my own set up (though unsure if it's currently working):

https://wago.io/Syz8eBzY-

The weakaura shows how powerful your current potential bleed is compared to what's on the target. If it shows as green, and a number above 100, re-apply. If it's in the red <100 let it run. Though always make sure you're increasing the snapshot when available. Until 8.1, you'll want to always Rip at 5CP without letting it drop as unlike rogue, the lower CP bleeds are weaker. Pool 50 energy for your 5CP FBs to help it hit harder.

Also until 8.1, once in the execute stage of 25%, FB will refresh your Rip. Try to have your juiciest bleed running, and re-apply if you have a stronger one.
11/13/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Rockford
Hey hey Inumi.

I switch back and forth between the two specs.
There's a number of changes incoming for 8.1that certainly help in your Feral's QoL with CP spent on Rip now scaling with time instead of power (like how Assassin works currently), but there is still a lot to consider when playing to get the most out of your dps.

Keep your bleeds up 100%. Use Tiger's Fury to make their snapshot more powerful. This is where certain buffs allow your bleeds to be stronger for their duration. An amazing way to track this is through a WeakAura here which I've ended up taking the snapshot information into my own set up (though unsure if it's currently working):

https://wago.io/Syz8eBzY-

The weakaura shows how powerful your current potential bleed is compared to what's on the target. If it shows as green, and a number above 100, re-apply. If it's in the red <100 let it run. Though always make sure you're increasing the snapshot when available. Until 8.1, you'll want to always Rip at 5CP without letting it drop as unlike rogue, the lower CP bleeds are weaker. Pool 50 energy for your 5CP FBs to help it hit harder.

Also until 8.1, once in the execute stage of 25%, FB will refresh your Rip. Try to have your juiciest bleed running, and re-apply if you have a stronger one.

After 8.1 feral should be dead, so you can come back to playing rogue again.
11/13/2018 10:41 PMPosted by Bleedya
After 8.1 feral should be dead, so you can come back to playing rogue again.
Feral is already dead...

Note that 8.1 brings some pretty hefty changes (which may break the above WA). FB will no longer have the execute mechanic. Rip now scales with time instead of damage per CP. The general idea will remain the same. I'm not even going to give advice on talents for 8.1 because I have nfi on the extent of the upcoming changes.

As mentioned earlier, Feral's not in a good spot atm, and I really can't see 8.1 (dec 11ish) improving on that much. Level up, see if you like it.
11/13/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Xvalentina
One of them, is trying to be us.. I never thought i'd see it, just be grateful ur overtuned class remains imbalanced.

It is kinda hard to balance rogues between 3 specs to be honest, what is weird with rogues is that players will associate the other two specs when one is doing really well.
One thing I have learned by playing multiple classes is that the grass is always greener on the other side.
You probably won't but you should try to make a rogue, you might learn something, probably have fun and maybe have a different outlook on the class.
I can't be grateful because the spec that I play isn't that good and pretty pruned, I'm not speaking relatively to other rogue specs but to other classes.
11/13/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Rockford
Hey hey Inumi.

I switch back and forth between the two specs.
There's a number of changes incoming for 8.1that certainly help in your Feral's QoL with CP spent on Rip now scaling with time instead of power (like how Assassin works currently), but there is still a lot to consider when playing to get the most out of your dps.

Keep your bleeds up 100%. Use Tiger's Fury to make their snapshot more powerful. This is where certain buffs allow your bleeds to be stronger for their duration. An amazing way to track this is through a WeakAura here which I've ended up taking the snapshot information into my own set up (though unsure if it's currently working):

https://wago.io/Syz8eBzY-

The weakaura shows how powerful your current potential bleed is compared to what's on the target. If it shows as green, and a number above 100, re-apply. If it's in the red <100 let it run. Though always make sure you're increasing the snapshot when available. Until 8.1, you'll want to always Rip at 5CP without letting it drop as unlike rogue, the lower CP bleeds are weaker. Pool 50 energy for your 5CP FBs to help it hit harder.

Also until 8.1, once in the execute stage of 25%, FB will refresh your Rip. Try to have your juiciest bleed running, and re-apply if you have a stronger one.

Thank you I appreciate all this information.
So I'm guessing on a opener from stealth should be something like rake>shred to 5 cp rip> tiger's fury>shred to 5cp > FB?
11/13/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Leadbelly
Bean is one of the best feral's (before) and playing right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmEML7k1Qtg&t=22s

Nice! Thank you!
Ah so far I'm leveling my feral and honestly to a certain extent I don't care how strong it is when it comes to damage, a classes kit is usually more important. From the looks of it, I'm sure I can win most fights as long as I can keep resetting. (Like rogues)
11/14/2018 12:35 AMPosted by Inumi
It is kinda hard to balance rogues between 3 specs to be honest, what is weird with rogues is that players will associate the other two specs when one is doing really well.
Oh, 100%.
People see certain aspect of all 3 specs, and judge the whole class, but what's a whole other discussion ;) But very much agree that people should look into playing Rogue when comparing mechanics to other specs as a lot of their kits (yes, very much pruned) can translate to other mechanics.
11/14/2018 12:38 AMPosted by Inumi
Thank you
No worries mate, Happy to help :)
11/14/2018 12:38 AMPosted by Inumi
So I'm guessing on a opener from stealth should be something like rake>shred to 5 cp rip> tiger's fury>shred to 5cp > FB?
Now I'm out of practice, and certainly don't claim to be an amazing Feral ;)

But the opener can be a very big topic of discussion. If you've taken Bloodtalons, that makes the snapshotting a little more cumbersome. Note: I personally hate the talent, but if you're keen, you'll want to use your Predatory Swiftness procs (from using a finisher) on an instant cast regrowth/roots to increase your output of the next 2 melee abilities. You'll want to use this on a 5CP Rip and Rake.

Now snapshotting from Tiger's Fury and Bloodtalons work from the abilities used after the cast (a bit like Assassin's Nightstalker talent) instead of increasing your power dynamically.

In short, a Rip that is already on the target will not be increased by Tiger's Fury cast after that application. I used to start off with a weaker Rip on the target (3CP), then Tiger's Fury (and Bloodtalons if you're specced into it (SR in there somewhere, i cbf)) into a full 5CP Rip (and Rake) for maximum up time on the target.

There are far far better Feral's than I am who can expand on this opening, but the basics are there ;)
11/14/2018 01:20 AMPosted by Rockford
11/14/2018 12:35 AMPosted by Inumi
It is kinda hard to balance rogues between 3 specs to be honest, what is weird with rogues is that players will associate the other two specs when one is doing really well.
Oh, 100%.
People see certain aspect of all 3 specs, and judge the whole class, but what's a whole other discussion ;) But very much agree that people should look into playing Rogue when comparing mechanics to other specs as a lot of their kits (yes, very much pruned) can translate to other mechanics.
11/14/2018 12:38 AMPosted by Inumi
Thank you
No worries mate, Happy to help :)
11/14/2018 12:38 AMPosted by Inumi
So I'm guessing on a opener from stealth should be something like rake>shred to 5 cp rip> tiger's fury>shred to 5cp > FB?
Now I'm out of practice, and certainly don't claim to be an amazing Feral ;)

But the opener can be a very big topic of discussion. If you've taken Bloodtalons, that makes the snapshotting a little more cumbersome. Note: I personally hate the talent, but if you're keen, you'll want to use your Predatory Swiftness procs (from using a finisher) on an instant cast regrowth/roots to increase your output of the next 2 melee abilities. You'll want to use this on a 5CP Rip and Rake.

Now snapshotting from Tiger's Fury and Bloodtalons work from the abilities used after the cast (a bit like Assassin's Nightstalker talent) instead of increasing your power dynamically.

In short, a Rip that is already on the target will not be increased by Tiger's Fury cast after that application. I used to start off with a weaker Rip on the target (3CP), then Tiger's Fury (and Bloodtalons if you're specced into it (SR in there somewhere, i cbf)) into a full 5CP Rip (and Rake) for maximum up time on the target.

There are far far better Feral's than I am who can expand on this opening, but the basics are there ;)

What are your thoughts about savage roar, since it is a finisher you can use it to proc predatory swiftness then build 4cp> tiger swiftness> blood talon root >rake > 5cp rip. On top of that I can use bezerking (troll racial) to increase the dot tic and eventually go into a FB.
I'm not a fan of SR, but it's definitely an option. Unsure on how strong it is currently or after 8.1, but juggling it in to make the most of your snapshots, which does look like you're getting the hang of now with your example :)

There's also the Luna Inspiration tier 15 talent which allows you to juggle CPs without triggering you Bloodtalons charges as it's a ranged ability. For dungeons, Predator may be better for it's constant TF resets. 8.1 also puts Sabertooth in this row, and tbh, I have nfi what talents will be competitive.

Also in 8.1, Jagged Wounds is going away, and Savage Roar is taking it's place in the tier. While an AoE finisher that applies Rip, and a talent that reduces the cost of Swipe by the about of Thrash you have our will be competing against Brutal Slash. Again, I have nfi what's best here.

But the biggest thing as I've mentioned earlier is that currently Rip scales it's damage per CP, and lasts for 23sec baseline. So a 1CP Rip is weak as, but still lasts as long as a full 5CP. In 8.1 it copies Rupture where it scales to time, and ticks from a 1CP Rip will hit as hard as a 5CP, just not be up as long. This adds some massive flexibility when in dungeons in tab Ripping multiple targets.
As a rogue main, I don’t plan on going feral. *shrug*
11/14/2018 05:02 AMPosted by Rockford
In 8.1 it copies Rupture where it scales to time, and ticks from a 1CP Rip will hit as hard as a 5CP, just not be up as long. This adds some massive flexibility when in dungeons in tab Ripping multiple targets.


I'm really wary of dropping LI, but perhaps I might consider it given that i don't necessarily need as much 'time on target' as we do now to get 'full bleeds' up.

Regrowth > Stealth > TF > Rake Stun > Rip > Shred to 5cp > Bite at 50 energy might be pretty real with Jungle Fury trait.
11/14/2018 06:35 AMPosted by Leadbelly
I'm really wary of dropping LI, but perhaps I might consider it given that i don't necessarily need as much 'time on target' as we do now to get 'full bleeds' up.
Yeah, LI gives a bit of flexibility for BT, and range for PvP (saying that, I don't PvP much at all). Still thinking Predator will be good for dungeons, particularly on Fortified weeks. Really not sure on the tuning for raiding, but there's also gameplay preference.
Yeah man. Deep down I know I'm just not gonna be able to ditch LI. I wish they'd just buff our Rip. We're meant to have heavy hitting bleeds FFS. Our Rip should be really scary.

Then I could not give two hoots about ST and I can use FB more for stacking Ferocious Wound.
Lol mental illness is a huge problem. Obviously this guy needs help if he's going feral from rogue
11/13/2018 10:41 PMPosted by Bleedya
After 8.1 feral should be dead, so you can come back to playing rogue again.
Feral is already dead...

As mentioned earlier, Feral's not in a good spot atm, and I really can't see 8.1 (dec 11ish) improving on that much. Level up, see if you like it.


Pretty much summed It up
11/14/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Jimmynitro
Lol mental illness is a huge problem. Obviously this guy needs help if he's going feral from rogue

That's pretty rude.
So far I'm enjoying the spec and there is nothing wrong with experiencing different classes, my rogue will always be my favorite. It is more odd for me to play the same class for 8+ years if you ask me.

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