Sira Moonwarden New VO

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10/17/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Sylassanna
Sure, why not.

Maybe Teldrassil can be a Forsaken-allied Ancient next patch.
It's too big for that.

The Forsaken are just going to move into the stump.
10/18/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Vespero
10/17/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Sylassanna
Sure, why not.

Maybe Teldrassil can be a Forsaken-allied Ancient next patch.
It's too big for that.

The Forsaken are just going to move into the stump.


Okay but only if the nelves grow a forest on top of UC, that'd be pretty cool
10/17/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Saiphas
I just want to say, everyone, find someone who loves you as much as Deathisfinal loves the forsaken, that kind of deep loyalty is a precious thing.


I would rather not spew hate, negativity and discontent. We all could agree that we have enough of that around here. How about a little love and optimism, is that so bad?

I think she could definitely be useful fighting against the wardens and the Night Elves so that'll give her one good expansion to really shine. Beyond that she'll probably become the Commander for the Forsaken Dark Wardens, and give quest pertaining to assassinations.
When are we going to find out that we all entered the Emerald Nightmare and never actually came back out, but instead dreamt of the defeating of the Legion and everything following is one long chain of nightmares?

This is all feels like some wild fever-dream of nonsense.
10/18/2018 11:51 AMPosted by Nightlighter
And that is exactly why they should all be killed. They are essentially a damaged form of themselves. Their goal is to spread despair and death across their path.
What should that be tolerated?
If said undead is the same as before then by all means they should be defended and allowed to love live in peace but if they are only murder machines well they need to be destroyed.
They're not only murder machines though. Sylvanas isn't having them brought back as slavering ghouls. They're incredibly poorly written, all non-scourge Forsaken are. But they all have some contrived reasoning that we have to rationalize as a fundamental personality shift upon being raised. And they're loyal to the Forsaken, for now.
10/18/2018 09:47 AMPosted by Carmageddon
As I and many others have pointed out, per lore, Forsaken are still lucid but fundamentally altered in that they have lost most of their capacity for positive emotions. So they lack empathy, especially for the living, and are driven by emotions such as rage, despair, and betrayal. Sira, for example, died feeling abandoned by the cause and leaders she fought for, so that feeling of betrayal becomes dominant in undeath, while the positive emotions (love of her people, etc.) either fade or become twisted (i.e. the way to spare them future suffering is to "release" them into death/undeath).

You can't keep assessing their actions as if the undead versions of these characters are exactly the same as when they died. They are profoundly altered, and not in good ways.


This logic is retarded because it completely ignores the fact that they're allied with the Horde. Why ally with anyone at that point if you have no positive emotions? Why not go on a killing spree and kill Forsaken and Night elves alike? They just have turn Horde for some reason.
10/18/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
10/17/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Saiphas
I just want to say, everyone, find someone who loves you as much as Deathisfinal loves the forsaken, that kind of deep loyalty is a precious thing.


I would rather not spew hate, negativity and discontent. We all could agree that we have enough of that around here. How about a little love and optimism, is that so bad?

I think she could definitely be useful fighting against the wardens and the Night Elves so that'll give her one good expansion to really shine. Beyond that she'll probably become the Commander for the Forsaken Dark Wardens, and give quest pertaining to assassinations.
I...don’t think I was saying that as a negative?? If it came across that way I apologize. I was more impressed by your positivity and trying to make a funny at the same time??
10/17/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
She's had one heck of a introduction as a Forsaken character, how could cdev build on her character as a loyal, intriguing and kick butt Forsaken?

Don't settle for second-hand Alliance characters. Demand REAL Forsaken characters.
10/18/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Saiphas
10/18/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
...

I would rather not spew hate, negativity and discontent. We all could agree that we have enough of that around here. How about a little love and optimism, is that so bad?

I think she could definitely be useful fighting against the wardens and the Night Elves so that'll give her one good expansion to really shine. Beyond that she'll probably become the Commander for the Forsaken Dark Wardens, and give quest pertaining to assassinations.
I...don’t think I was saying that as a negative?? If it came across that way I apologize. I was more impressed by your positivity and trying to make a funny at the same time??


I wasn't offended, I was simply elaborating : )

10/18/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Zuleika
10/17/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
She's had one heck of a introduction as a Forsaken character, how could cdev build on her character as a loyal, intriguing and kick butt Forsaken?

Don't settle for second-hand Alliance characters. Demand REAL Forsaken characters.


I don't care that she was a former Alliance character, 99.9% of Forsaken characters ARE former Alliance characters to include Sylvanas, Blightcaller, Lydon, Farnell, Voss, etc etc etc

Heck even the abominations are made from bits and pieces of former Alliance members.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

As I and many others have pointed out, per lore, Forsaken are still lucid but fundamentally altered in that they have lost most of their capacity for positive emotions. So they lack empathy, especially for the living, and are driven by emotions such as rage, despair, and betrayal. Sira, for example, died feeling abandoned by the cause and leaders she fought for, so that feeling of betrayal becomes dominant in undeath, while the positive emotions (love of her people, etc.) either fade or become twisted (i.e. the way to spare them future suffering is to "release" them into death/undeath).

You can't keep assessing their actions as if the undead versions of these characters are exactly the same as when they died. They are profoundly altered, and not in good ways.


Um forgive the sarcasm but as someone who played TfT and mains a DK, im gonna call bs on everything you just wrote there.


Not sure what those credentials are supposed to mean, but whatever.

Undeath fundamentally changes you, yes. But it doesnt hand you some 30$ for the faction change or removes logic from your brain.


Oh, my bad. I thought we were talking about NPCs, not player characters.

Oh wait, we were. Okay then, I still don't get your point.

It took Sylvanas 0 seconds flat to start plotting revenge against the scourge when Illidan started messing around in northrend, and the forsaken she freed later followed suit.


Yes, because rage is a negative emotion, and they were dominated by rage at Arthas for enslaving and using them. In this case, Sira seems dominated by her rage at Elune and Tyrande for failing her. So that rage is what is magnified in undeath. Delaryn seems dominated by despair. I wouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be not as far gone as Sira.

Similarly the ebon blade rebelled immediately against arthas when he betrayed them and his control slipped- and they're in a worse state of mind than the forsaken


See Sylvanas, above.

Point being, undeath turns you into a twisted form of your former self, where you lack empathy, love, etc and are driven by negative emotions but thats all the more reason to hate the person that murdered you


Or the person who failed you and allowed you to die. From Sira's point of view, Sylvanas killed her because they were enemies, but Elune and Tyrande failed in their duty to her. Her faith was shattered at her death. And she hates them for it. With the cold pragmatism of the Forsaken, she no longer cares about most of the positive things she cared about in life, and she sees her only place with others who are like her.

Have none of you noticed that all of the Forsaken are kind of messed up in the head?

Sira and Delaryn are fundamentally altered. They can't just shake it off. You can't judge their actions as if they are unchanged. They are now sociopathic versions of themselves.
@Carmageddon

>Yes, because rage is a negative emotion, and they were dominated by rage at Arthas for enslaving and using them. In this case, Sira seems dominated by her rage at Elune and Tyrande for failing her. So that rage is what is magnified in undeath. Delaryn seems dominated by despair. I wouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be not as far gone as Sira.

Then why, prey tell, are their negative emotions tunnel visioned towards their former allies alone? If sira was dominated by rage, then wouldnt make sense that she would attack everyone equally?

pissed off undead here and about any setting tend to either a) hate everyone equally or b) seek vengeance

Just as the valkyr can suddenly raise nelves, blizz is trying to sell me oh "oh they were fighting the horde seconds before but now they hate elune and the nelves specifcally "is insulting to one's intelligence

>See Sylvanas, above.

Didnt worked like that. Like i mentioned The DKs at first only rebelled against the LK bc he betrayed them at Lights hope, before that all of them at a "scourge patriotism" of sorts, the fact that LK was the one that killed them in the first place only kicked in a bit later- which is what im hoping happens here, but i know better than to dream

>Or the person who failed you and allowed you to die. From Sira's point of view, Sylvanas killed her because they were enemies, but Elune and Tyrande failed in their duty to her. Her faith was shattered at her death. And she hates them for it. With the cold pragmatism of the Forsaken, she no longer cares about most of the positive things she cared about in life, and she sees her only place with others who are like her.

Okay fair enough, Sira hates Tyrande and elune for failiing her. Why does she hate only tyrande and elune? Pragmatism doesnt just cut it for joining the person that murdered you and your people

>Have none of you noticed that all of the Forsaken are kind of messed up in the head? Sira and Delaryn are fundamentally altered. They can't just shake it off.

Yes, and Sylvanas, the forsaken and DKs also are messed up and have been fundamentally altered- they were still lucid enough to be pissed off at the ones that killed them
Then what about Derek Proudmoore? The tidesage Voss converts? Or the Desolate Council from Before the Storm?

It’s a huge narrative point in the book: that undeath doesn’t (typically) fundamentally alter a person. All the Forsaken characters there show a full range of emotion and seem just fine with reuniting with their loved ones and Sylvanus kills them for it.

Much, if not all, of the Forsaken resentment is attributed to two things: 1) Decomposition (and death magic?) and 2) Rejection.

The risen Night Elves are not rejected and they’re certainly not rotted. Tyrande calls out to them to come to their senses and doesn’t seem to turn them away simply for having been murdered and reanimated against their will.
10/18/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Nemiria
Don’t forget we still have that !@#$ show of a story in Darkshore that brings this whole thing about.


And don't forget, 8.1. is the Alliance winning the war, follow by 8.2 when the Alliance is losing the war.
Why does she hate Maiev so much? No one forced her to become Warden leader...did they?
10/17/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Deathisfinal

Listening to her VO has gotten me a little excited, she sounds like she's genuinely had it with the Night Elves and Elune:

https://youtu.be/DIm0BLdtd1k?t=864


I was momentarily confused thinking her lines were chronological. She goes from wanting to rip the forsaken apart, to being a militant horde loyalist.

"Run back to your banshee queen!" to "This land belongs to the Forsaken!"

She's had one heck of a introduction as a Forsaken character, how could cdev build on her character as a loyal, intriguing and kick butt Forsaken?


It helps that she glosses over why chose to be risen and fight for the horde in a dialog box, conviently skipping over the hard part of why she joined, and going strait to forsaken loyalist.

Id rather not have even more Alliance characters be stolen away to give the forsaken characters. Especially when the people are the victims of a horde genocide.
10/17/2018 09:12 PMPosted by Sylassanna
Sure, why not.

Maybe Teldrassil can be a Forsaken-allied Ancient next patch.


Stop pitching these awesome ideas or they'll become part of this very well written story.
10/18/2018 02:29 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
I would rather not spew hate, negativity and discontent.

Will you come to my party if Sylvanas is a raid boss and dies? I'm think Wizard of Oz themed.
10/18/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Amadis
Will you come to my party if Sylvanas is a raid boss and dies? I'm think Wizard of Oz themed.


Hey, I have been waiting forever to sing "ding dong the witch is dead" if they ever make Sylvanas a raid boss!
what the !@#$ is this writing lmao
10/18/2018 11:21 PMPosted by Theadrel
what the !@#$ is this writing lmao


i mean we are talking about the same people who believed that the alliance needed teldrassil as justification.

like... da hell?

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