8.1 Horde War campaign (we get owned)

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10/25/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Volmere
That's super fun... like not a win to be had through the whole questline.

rastakhan killed, Zanadalari fleet destroyed, lose the scepter we stole in the 8.0 campaign...

Getting the Zandalaris fleet was literally the whole point of the Horde's excursion to Zandalar and now we have no ships while the alliance still has the full might of the Kul Tiran fleet?

How is that balanced in any way in an expansion that supposedly is 'focused' on the benefits naval supremacy?

How exactly did the Alliance have enough troops/ship[s to both launch an assault/takeover of Nazmir and also send a whole fleet to Dazar'Alor and take over the whole city without anyone noticing? While the Horde/Zandalari only have enough to do one?

Please...as if the Zandalar harbor would be that easy to take.

This whole 'Horde wins one then Alliance wins one isn't fun when you don't know how to do it properly Blizz... Everything seems so forced and contrived instead of what should feel like an organic story unfolding.


Next time add a spoiler warning, ya jerk.
10/25/2018 09:40 PMPosted by Believed
10/25/2018 09:35 PMPosted by Liara
...

Well was waiting for a Godwin.

Never fails.


Honestly in many ways Hitler is more sane than Sylvanas.


I am not getting into a discussion/debate between a real life evil man and a pixal character in a video game. There is no comparison, at all.
And the problem is what, exactly?

Fronts change, the balance of power changes, different groups get the upper hand at different times. It's a war, it is chaos. It also isn't over.
10/25/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Kittredge
10/25/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Volmere
That's super fun... like not a win to be had through the whole questline.

rastakhan killed, Zanadalari fleet destroyed, lose the scepter we stole in the 8.0 campaign...

Getting the Zandalaris fleet was literally the whole point of the Horde's excursion to Zandalar and now we have no ships while the alliance still has the full might of the Kul Tiran fleet?

How is that balanced in any way in an expansion that supposedly is 'focused' on the benefits naval supremacy?

How exactly did the Alliance have enough troops/ship[s to both launch an assault/takeover of Nazmir and also send a whole fleet to Dazar'Alor and take over the whole city without anyone noticing? While the Horde/Zandalari only have enough to do one?

Please...as if the Zandalar harbor would be that easy to take.

This whole 'Horde wins one then Alliance wins one isn't fun when you don't know how to do it properly Blizz... Everything seems so forced and contrived instead of what should feel like an organic story unfolding.


Next time add a spoiler warning, ya jerk.


In the OP's defense, nothing he said was new information.
10/25/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Wiggin


Jaina has been apart of the lore since Warcraft 3, 2002.

Rastakhan was just put into this game in BFA and has only previously been mentioned once in vanilla ZG and then Cata.

Jaina is a SIGNIFICANTLY bigger loss than Rastakhan if she dies.


We’ve lost Cairne* and Vol’jin the alliance has to start losing some key leaders at some point I’m leaning more towards some night elfs Demi gods being slaughtered but either way.
10/25/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Khileeha

What is this? A horde player complaining about unsatisfying story?

I thought the horde were the possessors of all moral superiority and altruism. How can they be on the forums proclaiming dissatisfaction like a lowly Alliance. (Sarcasm)


You guys cannot SERIOUSLY pretend this is the first time you've heard the Horde complain about our crappy story.

Nor can you pretend that there aren't 20 alliance "horde bias!" threads for every one of ours.
There's 4 acts to this story and 8.1 is the halfway point (assuming we get patches up to 8.3). We'll get our counter-counter punches in again. Neither faction is going to win the war in the middle of the expansion.
Relax. The balance of power in the faction war is ping-ponging -- after the assault on Dazar'alor the Horde is left at an all-time low with murmurs of the Alliance being on the verge of victory...so the Horde is obviously going to be due for a big strike back.

Ten bucks says that Lady Ashvane's jailbreak somehow eventually culminates in the sinking of the Kul'Tiran fleet. Meanwhile Derek assassinates Mama Proudmoore.
10/25/2018 09:44 PMPosted by Liara
10/25/2018 09:40 PMPosted by Believed
...

Honestly in many ways Hitler is more sane than Sylvanas.


I am not getting into a discussion/debate between a real life evil man and a pixal character in a video game. There is no comparison, at all.

On the forums, both here and SF, it should just be called "Sylvanas' Law". It's only a matter of time before any given thread descends into a !@#$%fest about her.
10/25/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Withpuppys
edit: and then you broke into our prison stole our prisoners, evaded the entire city guard, while setting stormwind on fire


No Zul sat Stormwind on fire the Horde didn't and it was a rescue mission .

THe Zandalari are not part of the Horde yet but by taking a member of the Zandalari royal family hostage you have driven them to ally with the horde and you will do the same by attacking Vulpera just because they helped the horde in assisting the Zandalari.
10/25/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Kittredge
10/25/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Volmere
That's super fun... like not a win to be had through the whole questline.

rastakhan killed, Zanadalari fleet destroyed, lose the scepter we stole in the 8.0 campaign...

Getting the Zandalaris fleet was literally the whole point of the Horde's excursion to Zandalar and now we have no ships while the alliance still has the full might of the Kul Tiran fleet?

How is that balanced in any way in an expansion that supposedly is 'focused' on the benefits naval supremacy?

How exactly did the Alliance have enough troops/ship[s to both launch an assault/takeover of Nazmir and also send a whole fleet to Dazar'Alor and take over the whole city without anyone noticing? While the Horde/Zandalari only have enough to do one?

Please...as if the Zandalar harbor would be that easy to take.

This whole 'Horde wins one then Alliance wins one isn't fun when you don't know how to do it properly Blizz... Everything seems so forced and contrived instead of what should feel like an organic story unfolding.


Next time add a spoiler warning, ya jerk.


The thread is called 8.1 Horde War Campaign. How much more spoiler warning did you need
10/25/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Volmere
How is that balanced
It's not balanced.

Blizzard is catering to the Alliance conspiracy theory "horde bias" squad.

Which is also fine because the story clearly isn't going to end this way. At some point the Horde will come back.

It's just the ebb and flow of how things go.

The story started with the Horde rocking the Alliance and obliterating one of their cities, baiting them into attacking the Undercity which was basically an elaborate trap that nearly wiped out the Alliance leadership if not for the arrival of Jaina ex machina.

Alliance was at a pretty low point then.

Now the tides of turned.

They'll turn again, they always do. But for now, the Hordes on the bottom.
10/25/2018 10:30 PMPosted by Waidmann
10/25/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Withpuppys
edit: and then you broke into our prison stole our prisoners, evaded the entire city guard, while setting stormwind on fire


No Zul sat Stormwind on fire the Horde didn't and it was a rescue mission .

THe Zandalari are not part of the Horde yet but by taking a member of the Zandalari royal family hostage you have driven them to ally with the horde and you will do the same by attacking Vulpera just because they helped the horde in assisting the Zandalari.


I gave up trying to tell people Horde did not set Stormwind on fire.

Zul did. He used it as a distraction. Jaina had to make a choice, the city burning
or catching the escaped prisoners and the ones helping them (us).

She chose the people in the city. Unlike Tyrande who chose her hubby over 1000's of Night Elves.
10/25/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Mikaelle
Uh no. Read the PTR, Zandalari join the Horde before the raid.

And is not just the Zandalari there, we also fight the Horde.


Ah, so they've recently changed it. In earlier versions of the PTR, the Zandalari hadn't joined the Horde until the Princess became the Zandalari leader after her father died in the battle.
To the people saying "its just back and forth in war" and so on. Of course its going to be written that way, because otherwise the entire premise of the game itself is dead (if the horde completely lose and are subjugated.. uh... what then, exactly? Roll a horde and play in an internment camp trying to level up by punching rocks?)

The problem is in HOW its written. Right now, there is no prospect of a true horde resurgence without some serious dues ex showing up to save the day, OR by the sheer mercy of the alliance. EITHER choice is complete and utter garbage in terms of story telling. Either we can't win and need the helping hand of god to even come back, or we cant win and need the merciful hand of god-duin to even come back. Regardless, we're written into a corner where WE cant come back, we have to be "saved," which is utter crap.

Why is it crap? Because its the kind of trash tier writing that has been the alliances playbook for years. They've been "the good guys" for expansion after expansion, always swooping in to save the day or be the "real heroes," and its been crap because its not believable. But now we're at the point for the horde were something equally stupid and unbelievable will have to happen in order for the horde to come back.

I mean, someone mentioned ashvane.. uh.. neat? So what, we release her and steal the mcguffin wand back and sink their fleet to? THAT is a deus ex, using a literal mcguffin to fix things... not tactical planning like the alliance sinking our ships with bombs placed in advance, or distracting the horde and attacking on a second front, nope the horde dont get to use "tactics," they just get mcguffined back into fighting form. Manduin backs off and lets us recoup? That, is a mandues ex. No no, we cant actually compete, so the infinite mercy of the "little lion" has to shine down on us from his infinite goodguyness and give us time to get back up... at which point we look like even worse bad guys when we get back up and hit him in his stupid face

There is no writing out of this that can be both effective at AT LEAST leveling the playing field some, and still be believable. Why? Because blizzard was stupid enough to hand the alliance a complete and totally overwhelming victory to the point that even greymane remarks about how they can now crush the horde within a few weeks at most

That.. that is what is wrong with the alliance "gaining the upper hand in 8.1." Its not THAT they gain the upper hand, its HOW they do it, and how it is so far and above the hordes ability to recover, that we'll need an act of god on our side (which, naturally WILL happen of course, as you've all pointed out)

And thats just bad writing.
10/25/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Voss
10/25/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Believed
The horde is a villainous faction. Complaining about them losing is like complaining about Hitler losing.


More like Cobra in G.I. Joe

10/25/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Snowslight
Not sure why we need a navy anyway considering there's something huge, ugly and mean under the water.

The loa, naga, turtles all talk about it.


What else would you fight that with?


You don't. You wait til it comes on shore.
10/25/2018 10:15 PMPosted by Tabaqui
10/25/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Khileeha

What is this? A horde player complaining about unsatisfying story?

I thought the horde were the possessors of all moral superiority and altruism. How can they be on the forums proclaiming dissatisfaction like a lowly Alliance. (Sarcasm)


You guys cannot SERIOUSLY pretend this is the first time you've heard the Horde complain about our crappy story.

Nor can you pretend that there aren't 20 alliance "horde bias!" threads for every one of ours.


No seriously, I see Horde complain about alliance story maybe. 3-5 times a year.

10/26/2018 04:51 AMPosted by Snowslight
10/25/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Voss
...

More like Cobra in G.I. Joe

...

What else would you fight that with?


You don't. You wait til it comes on shore.


Then youre too late.
10/25/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Volmere
How exactly did the Alliance have enough troops/ship[s to both launch an assault/takeover of Nazmir and also send a whole fleet to Dazar'Alor and take over the whole city without anyone noticing? While the Horde/Zandalari only have enough to do one?


From what you're saying, it sounds a bit like they took a lot of our complaints from blue side and just flipped the complainants.

Especially this one. We still don't know where the hell Sylvanas came up with enough ground troops to brute-force her way straight through Darkshore to Auberdine, or to make the Battle for Lordaeron any kind of actual struggle for the Alliance. She just kind of had them on tap all of a sudden.
10/26/2018 11:49 AMPosted by Kegbrew
10/25/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Volmere
How exactly did the Alliance have enough troops/ship[s to both launch an assault/takeover of Nazmir and also send a whole fleet to Dazar'Alor and take over the whole city without anyone noticing? While the Horde/Zandalari only have enough to do one?


From what you're saying, it sounds a bit like they took a lot of our complaints from blue side and just flipped the complainants.

Especially this one. We still don't know where the hell Sylvanas came up with enough ground troops to brute-force her way straight through Darkshore to Auberdine, or to make the Battle for Lordaeron any kind of actual struggle for the Alliance. She just kind of had them on tap all of a sudden.


It wasnt a struggle. It was always a trap.
You're losing your random sketchy king nobody and your city (It's not even your city lol) is staying in tact vs.

Teldrassil, Theramore that were completely annihilated. And were getting two MAJOR leaders mortally wounded.

Plus now Princess Tanjerine will replace that king, and she's actually a decent leader yaknow.

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