Here is Why the Alliance Loses

Battlegrounds
Just ran an Alterac Valley.

Here's a recap of what happened:

1) Get into the match pre gate drop. Three different people spam a macro reminding people to skip galv and RUSH to the relief hut gy. Not a single one of these macros say a thing about back capping.

2) I say, hey don't forget we need back cappers.

3) Gates drop and Alliance rushes south.

4) I sit mid and watch the game unfold, waiting for people to come back so I can heal a back cap team. Ask again for back cappers.

5) SHB, GY in between SHB and Icewing caps, then icewing caps. Still no one coming back to back cap. Check map, IBT still red.

6) Norther and Southern towers start capping. IBT still red. Still no one coming back to recap. Ask again for back cappers.

7) IBT still red thanks to Horde successfully defending IBT and the gy next to it.

8) Horde has all four towers on timers, meanwhile Alliance "hey we need more people in ibt." 80% of the team now sits afk waiting on towers down south. The rest of the team is sitting north getting farmed with no one making attempts to recap north towers.

9) All four alliance towers now burned. Alliance chat people STILL asking for more people to come to IBT.

10) GG

tl;dr no amount of premade only / solo queue only match making system is EVER going to improve your win rate if people keep playing like what I witnessed in this match. Blizzard can't play the video game for you kids.
I rerolled horde. This is the kind of talent i have to work with when doing rbgs and this just proves I made the right decision.

They play better, smarter, fight harder, and usually work as a team and do objectives.

Alliance? there's something seriously wrong with this faction pvp wise.

I'll still run pvp on this alliance guy since I love my dark iron dwarf w/ transmog so much but pvp'ing on alliance is like pulling teeth.
10/28/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Harbingerpk
I rerolled horde. This is the kind of talent i have to work with when doing rbgs and this just proves I made the right decision.

They play better, smarter, fight harder, and usually work as a team and do objectives.

Alliance? there's something seriously wrong with this faction pvp wise.

I'll still run pvp on this alliance guy since I love my dark iron dwarf w/ transmog so much but pvp'ing on alliance is like pulling teeth.


yeppp you and me both with similar opinions. I mean for Randoms Idc. but for Rated, After going 3/16 a few weeks ago, I'm staying away from that bull!@#$ for a while. Terrible experience.

In example, one of the games was Eye of Storm, Everyone was fighting mid, I ended up getting the flag, I go to cap it, and the dumbass Paladin guarding Mage Tower leaves to go to middle. Then, We end up losing because I was putting out good damage and killing off their team, while he was barely doing anything (Had to force defend MT because he left)

Other situation, Happened 2x. We got literally 4 people at Lighthouse in Battle for Gil, and somehow the base gets capped.

These were all Yolo's, and some Voice. but still. Taking a break from RBG's for a while after that terrible week.

edit: You should add me Harbing, I posted in your Tournament thread the other day of being interested - JMack#1769 - Anyone else H/A welcome to add as well for Randoms/Mythics/Rated etc.
10/28/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Harbingerpk
I rerolled horde. This is the kind of talent i have to work with when doing rbgs and this just proves I made the right decision.

They play better, smarter, fight harder, and usually work as a team and do objectives.

Alliance? there's something seriously wrong with this faction pvp wise.

I'll still run pvp on this alliance guy since I love my dark iron dwarf w/ transmog so much but pvp'ing on alliance is like pulling teeth.
You should collect reflex data on both characters. should be a fun experiment
Blizzard could do a number of things to improve queues

    Mix faction queues
    Add passive MMR (cumulative team score) - fixes premades/role issues too
    Make it easier to do mercenary (UI option, no visiting capital)
    Offer better rewards to alliance (therefore also encouraging mercenaries)
    Allow you to choose opposite race and fix transmog/spells (QoL)
    Offer AI based proving grounds (so people can learn enemy spells/interrupts/etc)

The only reason I can think they really haven't touched this issue, is either because the stats show an even win rate, therefore nothing to do, or because its casual PvP and no one really cares.
10/28/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Muffindiving
tl;dr no amount of premade only / solo queue only match making system is EVER going to improve your win rate if people keep playing like what I witnessed in this match. Blizzard can't play the video game for you kids.

You didn't get 10-15 people insist on pushing Galv and/or RH and then complain how you could have won if more went with them though??
10/28/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Llamabacon

Mix faction queues
Add passive MMR (cumulative team score) - fixes premades/role issues too
Make it easier to do mercenary (UI option, no visiting capital)
Offer better rewards to alliance (therefore also encouraging mercenaries)
Allow you to choose opposite race and fix transmog/spells (QoL)
Offer AI based proving grounds (so people can learn enemy spells/interrupts/etc)

I like your suggestions a lot. Especially mix faction queues, it would be so fun to invite my alliance friends over, or to help them on their team on occasion.

I think that if PvP proving grounds were too difficult to implement it would be nice if we could at least get an in-game spell book with every classes' abilities so that we could look stuff up, ideally with helpful notes on how to use such abilities.

Honestly it might not be too hard to make that an addon, it's too bad that the people that would need it would be unlikely to know about its existence.

10/28/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Muffindiving
80% of the team now sits afk waiting on towers down south.
I've had luck calling that hill outside of Drek's room "noob hill" and telling specific people not to stand on it, and instead come somewhere else.
10/28/2018 11:41 AMPosted by Tribbie
10/28/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Muffindiving
tl;dr no amount of premade only / solo queue only match making system is EVER going to improve your win rate if people keep playing like what I witnessed in this match. Blizzard can't play the video game for you kids.

You didn't get 10-15 people insist on pushing Galv and/or RH and then complain how you could have won if more went with them though??


Honestly it almost felt like I was playing with a bunch of bots.
10/28/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Muffindiving
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You didn't get 10-15 people insist on pushing Galv and/or RH and then complain how you could have won if more went with them though??


Honestly it almost felt like I was playing with a bunch of bots.


That's actually one of the reasons why alliance lost a lot in Legion. I really haven't noticed many bots so far in BFA though. But, I haven't really been looking out for them either. They are easier to spot when you play against them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIndN8GnUHs
But I thought it was the premades?
Disingenuous. When people talk about solo queue they are talking about the smaller BGs, not AV.

And BTW, AV is an unorganized 40-man BG in which alliance have to be far more strategic than horde when it comes to resource distribution, i.e. how many people need to be where at any given time.

I don't disagree that in general alliance need to defend more; however, I've noticed a fairly glaring problem is alliance healers do not know how to distribute themselves well. So, for instance, no healers will fall back on defense/backcap duty, and that very much sets the defense back.

AV is not as "simple" for alliance as most seem to think it is. Apparently even the horde who merc to "observe for themselves" can't figure that out.
10/28/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Muffindiving
Just ran an Alterac Valley.

Here's a recap of what happened:

1) Get into the match pre gate drop. Three different people spam a macro reminding people to skip galv and RUSH to the relief hut gy. Not a single one of these macros say a thing about back capping.

2) I say, hey don't forget we need back cappers.

3) Gates drop and Alliance rushes south.

4) I sit mid and watch the game unfold, waiting for people to come back so I can heal a back cap team. Ask again for back cappers.

5) SHB, GY in between SHB and Icewing caps, then icewing caps. Still no one coming back to back cap. Check map, IBT still red.

6) Norther and Southern towers start capping. IBT still red. Still no one coming back to recap. Ask again for back cappers.

7) IBT still red thanks to Horde successfully defending IBT and the gy next to it.

8) Horde has all four towers on timers, meanwhile Alliance "hey we need more people in ibt." 80% of the team now sits afk waiting on towers down south. The rest of the team is sitting north getting farmed with no one making attempts to recap north towers.

9) All four alliance towers now burned. Alliance chat people STILL asking for more people to come to IBT.

10) GG

tl;dr no amount of premade only / solo queue only match making system is EVER going to improve your win rate if people keep playing like what I witnessed in this match. Blizzard can't play the video game for you kids.

So basically you sat out the entire battle doing nothing, and you're blaming the rest of the team?
10/28/2018 07:20 PMPosted by Utterly
I don't disagree that in general alliance need to defend more; however, I've noticed a fairly glaring problem is alliance healers do not know how to distribute themselves well. So, for instance, no healers will fall back on defense/backcap duty, and that very much sets the defense back.

Or, they'll fall back prematurely, resulting in a loss of IBGY after it's tapped.
Did you cap sf?
10/28/2018 07:58 PMPosted by Yarrow
10/28/2018 07:20 PMPosted by Utterly
I don't disagree that in general alliance need to defend more; however, I've noticed a fairly glaring problem is alliance healers do not know how to distribute themselves well. So, for instance, no healers will fall back on defense/backcap duty, and that very much sets the defense back.

Or, they'll fall back prematurely, resulting in a loss of IBGY after it's tapped.


Yep. Something that is incredible yet also strangely appalling is how alliance play quite well in the 111-119 bracket of epic BGs. It feels like there is much intelligence on their side while the horde are like a blob of knuckle-dragging flatulence-bags. Oh wait, they are. But anyway, the difference is startling based on bracket. :D
10/30/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Utterly
It feels like there is much intelligence on their side while the horde are like a blob of knuckle-dragging flatulence-bags. Oh wait, they are.


Okay, I laughed
99% of all my losses horde or alliance are from crapy teamwork and highly negative attitudes
Random BG.
10/28/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Yarrow
So basically you sat out the entire battle doing nothing, and you're blaming the rest of the team?


I love that this was your take away from my post.

To answer your question bitter betty, no I didn't sit out the game.

After realizing that no one was going to come back to help back cap SHB and Icewing I went back North to try and stem the tide there.

But please don't let me get in the way of you trying to sidestep the fact that Alliance players (not the premade boogeyman) are responsible for their losses.

10/28/2018 07:20 PMPosted by Utterly
Disingenuous. When people talk about solo queue they are talking about the smaller BGs, not AV.


You're cherry picking threads. And the competency of a players is still on display in Alterac Valley. You going to sit there and try to tell me that these same players who refuse to do anything but AFK on Noob Hill are suddenly strategy and situationally aware when they hit a 10/15 man?

Here's a 10/15 man story for you too.

Group up with three other Horde players last night.

Get WSG.

Both teams grab flags and get back to their respective bases.

We win the first cap, we had two healers, they had 2 healers.

After the first cap, their 5 man premade bails on them.

Top notch Alliance players right there.
Even if alliance did back cap in AV. Horde always have 8-10 in bunkers defending.

That's how we roll.

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