Arcane Mage PvE Question

Mage
So I played a little bit of this mage in Legion and I'm just now leveling it for BfA. I get the whole burn phase/conserve phase but Everywhere I look the rotation says to use Evocation at the end of your burn phase and then sit at 50%+ mana until you reenter the next burn phase.

My question is what benefit is there to using evocation at the end of your burn phase when the goal is to stay mana-neutral? If you save Evocation for the end of your conserve phase, you are unable to make the mistake of burning too much mana while conserving. In this scenario if you are too aggressive with your mana expenditure, the fact that you have 0 mana forces you to dial back and then you have evocation for when you enter burn phase again and need your mana.
Saving evocation is wasting mana. Mana is dps. You want to use as much mana as possible, making sure you always have mana for ap and rune of power charges.

Being mana neutral is just something you have to do when evocation is not available.
Arcane power is your burn phase.
With overpowered talent, Mana cost is reduced by 60%. Without that talent, mana costs is reduced by 30%.

Arcane power only lasts 10 seconds and you want to pump out as many 4-charge blasts during those 10 seconds as possible. So you only need 30% mana (with Overpowered talent) or 50% mana (without that talent) to achieve that goal.

After arcane power expires, you keep blasting at max power. Between procs, touch of the magi, and the simple fact you probably popped arcane power during timewarp, you want to maximize the moment as much as possible.

So you keep blasting to zero, Evocate, blast down to 30-50% and finally barrage and enter your conserve phase.

Staying at the proper mana range is a matter of self control that must be learned.
@Advective
That makes sense. I had not considered that really. Thanks

@Tinkerizmo
While I appreciate you taking the time to respond, my question was more specific to why it is beneficial to use evocation when you do, not about the rotation in general.
As a side note, I will make a talent suggestion.

If you take charged up, time anomaly, resonance or arcane orb, you should really take Rule of Threes at tier 1. Anytime one of those talents procs you to 3+ charges you get a free blast.

Especially with charged up and orb.
CU: 40 sec CD
AO: 20 sec CD
Both should be usable many times

CU comes off CD, barrage, CU, now you get a free blast. Boom.

With arcane orb and mobs, same thing (assuming you can connect it to 3+ baddies). AO comes off CD, barrage, orb, pop back at 4 charges, boom with the free blast.
Evocation has a 3 min CD
Arcane power has 90 sec CD

If you use Evocation when it's less optimal, you don't have it for your burn when you should be using it and your dps will drop.

Learn control and keep an eye on your mana.

Eating for a few seconds after every pull and playing catch up with the group is often something you need to do.
@OP it sounds like you are misunderstanding what the burn phase is. Burn phase does not end when AP does, it ends when you run out of mana after you use AP. Which means the obvious next thing to do is use Evocation since you will be at 0 mana and unable to cast any spells. Conservation phase begins when you reach 50% mana (30% if you use Overpowered) after your Evocation.
burn through both bars of mana using evocate, stop at around 30% and start building 3 or 4 charges and clearing with barrage, play this way untill you have an evocate, burn then evocate burn back to around 40%, wash and repeat. use arcane power if you have at least 30% mana to burn ablast, otherwise save it for when after you evocate. This is also dependant on your azerite traits and talents taken.
my rule of thumb is to just not arcane power if I am below 30% mana just incase, but you can also use arcane power if you are in the conserve phase. Just make sure you have some presence of mind handy or charged up to build charges during arcane power buff.

edit: Also wanted to add you can actually just play burn phase untill your mana is all gone then you are forced into a conserve phase, I find that dmg to not be really any different. The only thing is you might some wasted commands on casting arcane blast while not actually having any mana left, so you can really dip to around 10% on your 2nd bar of mana. the dmg ends up being equal.

Either way you balance it the dmg ends up being the same, arcane mages trade mana for dmg, so it doesnt really matter how you balance it and can just tune it to w/e feels most comfortable for you.
Thank you all for the help
11/05/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Tinkerizmo
As a side note, I will make a talent suggestion.

If you take charged up, time anomaly, resonance or arcane orb, you should really take Rule of Threes at tier 1. Anytime one of those talents procs you to 3+ charges you get a free blast.

Especially with charged up and orb.
CU: 40 sec CD
AO: 20 sec CD
Both should be usable many times

CU comes off CD, barrage, CU, now you get a free blast. Boom.

With arcane orb and mobs, same thing (assuming you can connect it to 3+ baddies). AO comes off CD, barrage, orb, pop back at 4 charges, boom with the free blast.


11/05/2018 10:51 AMPosted by Tinkerizmo
Evocation has a 3 min CD
Arcane power has 90 sec CD

If you use Evocation when it's less optimal, you don't have it for your burn when you should be using it and your dps will drop.

Learn control and keep an eye on your mana.

Eating for a few seconds after every pull and playing catch up with the group is often something you need to do.


Wait, what!? No no no no no no no no! Never talent out of Rule of Threes ever, never take Time Anomaly, you only ever take Overpowered and Charged Up for single target and Arcane Orb and Resonance for AoE; Charged Up and Arcane Orb should absolutely never ever ever ever ever be taken together inside of a PvE situation unless you're leveling or mucking around for fun.

Also, Evocation is not a 3 min cooldown for Arcane, Evocation Rank 2 reduces Evocation down to a 1.5 min (90 sec) cooldown.
Evocation should just be timed in a way to make sure it spends as little time as possible off cooldown but you have also used up all your mana since it has the same cooldown as Arcane Power.

Only ever use Clearcasting procs in single target for when you need to save mana, Arcane Blast spam is more single target damage per second.
I got the cd time wrong on Evocation.
You got me there.
But whether it's 90sec, 2min or 3min, it doesn't really change my point.

But the rest... you're not even close on

I was clearly not saying "take all of these talents together". I don't even think that's possible. It's clearly a suggestion that indicates if you take one of these talents in the list, you should also take Rule of 3s because Ro3 works great with all of them.

I was also not saying "take both CU and orb" together, just pointing out they have relatively short CD's and if you have one of those talents, with Ro3, they should be used often to get a Rule of 3s proc.

You often have useful info, but it's like you are desperately trying too hard to find something that justifies you coming across as a jerk.

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