Loot trading is just fine.

Classic Discussion
Let's clear something up.

Loot trading does not mean that gear will be more readily available. The same loot will drop from the same bosses at the same rates. If that loot drops, you will still have to roll on an item and compete with other players who can use it. It will still be handed out via master loot. This is not personal loot where the only items that drop are those that are usable by the classes in the party. A cloth helm can drop in a group entirely comprised of plate/leather.

The only benefit of loot trading in a vanilla style looting system is to provide an option for those who's gear was accidentally looted to the wrong person. Which previously would have just been remedied by a GM ticket.
11/07/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Stabalicious
Let's clear something up.

Loot trading does not mean that gear will be more readily available. The same loot will drop from the same bosses at the same rates. If that loot drops, you will still have to roll on an item and compete with other players who can use it. It will still be handed out via master loot. This is not personal loot where the only items that drop are those that are usable by the classes in the party. A cloth helm can drop in a group entirely comprised of plate/leather.

The only benefit of loot trading in a vanilla style looting system is to provide an option for those who's gear was accidentally looted to the wrong person. Which previously would have just been remedied by a GM ticket.


I wish that were the system we are getting, but it's not.

In vanilla all melee and ranged dps prebis are the same items, same with casters and healers.
This isn't retail, people will be rolling for their friends and vice versa, to stack the odds in their favor.
11/07/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Meleecounter
This isn't retail, people will be rolling for their friends and vice versa, to stack the odds in their favor.


This is going to hardcore taint low level group dungeons. People won't bother making tickets for a level 38 mace.

The whole loot trading thing is because they dont want to pay GMs to answer player tickets, they know that people won't make tickets when they get a item stolen from them.
Except if I remember right there was no auto pass on stuff you couldnt use. so plate for example can need on cloth. Could be forgetting part of that loot process. Either way it could lead to feeding groups of ninja looting to give a friend one of those few pieces that do drop.
11/07/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Meleecounter

I wish that were the system we are getting, but it's not.

In vanilla all melee and ranged dps prebis are the same items, same with casters and healers.
This isn't retail, people will be rolling for their friends and vice versa, to stack the odds in their favor.


People could "roll for their friends" in vanilla as well and just master loot it to their friend. That wasn't too common because you'd be seen as a jerk, likely reported, and people wouldn't group with you anymore.

I guess your concern is if the person who isn't master loot rolls as if he personally needs it, then hands it to the friend in the party. While that may be possible, it's likely a reportable offense, and again could cost you socially in vanilla.
11/07/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Stabalicious
11/07/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Meleecounter

I wish that were the system we are getting, but it's not.

In vanilla all melee and ranged dps prebis are the same items, same with casters and healers.
This isn't retail, people will be rolling for their friends and vice versa, to stack the odds in their favor.


People could "roll for their friends" in vanilla as well and just master loot it to their friend. That wasn't too common because you'd be seen as a jerk, likely reported, and people wouldn't group with you anymore.

I guess your concern is if the person who isn't master loot rolls as if he personally needs it, then hands it to the friend in the party. While that may be possible, it's likely a reportable offense, and again could cost you socially in vanilla.

It's not a reportable offense, never has never will be.

Now for your second point, you have a full 2 hours to trade the item you won to your friend, you can do it when the run is over and none would know.

If you master looted an item to your friend, everyone would know. The difference is enormous.
11/07/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Stabalicious
Let's clear something up.

Loot trading does not mean that gear will be more readily available. The same loot will drop from the same bosses at the same rates. If that loot drops, you will still have to roll on an item and compete with other players who can use it. It will still be handed out via master loot. This is not personal loot where the only items that drop are those that are usable by the classes in the party. A cloth helm can drop in a group entirely comprised of plate/leather.

The only benefit of loot trading in a vanilla style looting system is to provide an option for those who's gear was accidentally looted to the wrong person. Which previously would have just been remedied by a GM ticket.


If that's their intent they need to include a very short time for loot trade to take place. 2 min is about all they should offer because if they don't, this will allow for some really bad things to take place.
Loot trading should not be a thing unless ML is enabled.
11/07/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Stabalicious
The only benefit of loot trading
Only Blizzard benefits from loot trading. Everyone else will suffer due to the numerous ways it can be exploited: Having friends roll for you will be extremely common, and some people will probably roll on everything just to sell it to the group member who wants it most.

Neither of those things were possible in Vanilla and they should not be possible in Classic just because Blizzard wants to cut back on GMs.

They should adjust the UI to make loot mistakes less common. If mistakes still happen, tell people "tough luck". No need for more GMs and no negative consequences for the community. People will learn to be more careful.
11/07/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Konway
11/07/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Stabalicious
The only benefit of loot trading
Only Blizzard benefits from loot trading. Everyone else will suffer due to the numerous ways it can be exploited: Having friends roll for you will be extremely common, and some people will probably roll on everything just to sell it to the group member who wants it most.

Neither of those things were possible in Vanilla and they should not be possible in Classic just because Blizzard wants to cut back on GMs.

They should adjust the UI to make loot mistakes less common. If mistakes still happen, tell people "tough luck". No need for more GMs and no negative consequences for the community. People will learn to be more careful.


There are numerous fixes to make loot trading more accountable, but that would require putting in effort, and we know how blizzard feels about effort.
11/07/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Meleecounter
11/07/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Stabalicious
Let's clear something up.

Loot trading does not mean that gear will be more readily available. The same loot will drop from the same bosses at the same rates. If that loot drops, you will still have to roll on an item and compete with other players who can use it. It will still be handed out via master loot. This is not personal loot where the only items that drop are those that are usable by the classes in the party. A cloth helm can drop in a group entirely comprised of plate/leather.

The only benefit of loot trading in a vanilla style looting system is to provide an option for those who's gear was accidentally looted to the wrong person. Which previously would have just been remedied by a GM ticket.


I wish that were the system we are getting, but it's not.

In vanilla all melee and ranged dps prebis are the same items, same with casters and healers.
This isn't retail, people will be rolling for their friends and vice versa, to stack the odds in their favor.


Player joins group then asks "is x item reserved?"
If yes player finds another group if no and they do what you say then they and their guild gets branded as ninja's.
11/07/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Coniferous
Loot trading should not be a thing unless ML is enabled.


That's a good point; to expand on your idea..

Limitation 1: Loot trading should be only active if the loot is set to "Master loot"

Limitation 2: Loot trading should only be active after the loot has been awarded for 2 minutes. After this point you're stuck, and that loot is permanently soul bound.

Limitation 3: Loot "Traded" will activate a public broadcast of the loot traded to all members of the group who could have looted that object. This makes the loot possession change public so that loot and "trouble" can be tracked.
11/07/2018 12:03 PMPosted by Tuathaa
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I wish that were the system we are getting, but it's not.

In vanilla all melee and ranged dps prebis are the same items, same with casters and healers.
This isn't retail, people will be rolling for their friends and vice versa, to stack the odds in their favor.


Player joins group then asks "is x item reserved?"
If yes player finds another group if no and they do what you say then they and their guild gets branded as ninja's.

i don't really know which post you are answering, because it's not the one you quoted.
I don't mind things that don't change the core effort vs. reward formula.

Loot trading will CLEARLY do that.

If loot trading is in, I am out. Then again, I am sure I am alone in this... so they won't miss me.
11/07/2018 12:09 PMPosted by Tristany
I don't mind things that don't change the core effort vs. reward formula.

Loot trading will CLEARLY do that.

If loot trading is in, I am out. Then again, I am sure I am alone in this... so they won't miss me.
Everyone with common sense is against loot trading.

If they choose to add it, I'll be abusing the hell out of it just like everyone else. Gotta do whatever is necessary to stay competitive.
I think loot trading can be ok if Blizzard does this:
  • Loot trading must happen while you are still in the dungeon/raid instance.
  • Loot trading is publicly logged to chat the same way rolls, etc. are logged.
Loot trading is not fine, in fact it goes against Blizzards very own design philosophy around the whole BoP/BoE system. Blizzard intentionally made it so that certain pieces of gear or items would not be able to be traded, the only exception being when things were looted by mistake or accidentally given to the wrong player but even if you made a ticket there was no guarantee that Blizzard would do anything about it.

If they have loot trading it will not be limited to when people make mistakes it will be abused by many players as it is in modern WoW. IMO anyone advocating for loot trading is more than likely just a ninja looter who wants to be able to gear them and their friends up as quick as possible at the expense of other players.

Edit: Also to anyone that claims that "they had loot trading in vanilla you just had to open a ticket". Please spare me, that same logic can be applied to justifying flying mounts in the game as you could fly in vanilla you just had to go to a flight master. Yes it's an extreme example but it applies quite well IMO.
Loot trading is garbage and promotes ninja looting

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