Why not fix classes?

Tides of Vengeance PTR General Discussion
Okay, so with all the effort going into fixing things like Azerite Armor (which, by the way is an unfixable mess), island expeditions, warfronts, etc., why are classes being totally ingored?

I think class design and balance are the most dislike things about BfA, and have been since Alpha. Yet, we see minor changes that fail to fix glaring problems with specs and a repeated failure to balance classes. Did the MDI show you nothing?!?

All the people I know that are unsubbing have cited that classes not being fun as either their main reason or one of their top two. Annecdotal? Sure, but one look at the class forums should tell you a whole lot about how unhappy people are. Move some of your top devs off of mobile and into WoW, please. The press conference where you said most of your top devs were on mobile projects sure explains a lot.
Its too bad no blizz employee will give us an anon AMA and spill the beans about what the atmosphere is really like behind the scenes at blizzard hq
Yeah, I remember when they claimed that they made back end changes to allow them to tune class balance issues without having to wait for a major update. Class balance has always been trash it's just more noticeable now with all of the sites breaking it down. This is the first time for me though where play has felt bad on every toon I've tried.

I can not wait for people to actually play classic. There is a reason that all of these classic clone servers are filled with the same handful of classes.
Yea I'm not sure what their fascination is with island expeditions and warfronts-- I haven't queued for an IE since week 2 because they're tedious trash grinds. I do 1 warfront when it pops for the 370 reward, but otherwise they're just as boring as IE's.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling to find motivation to do content I normally enjoy because class design/balance is junk right now.

But yea, keep dumping resources into island expeditions and perpetuating this terrible azerite system.
I'm not going to play all this new content if my classes aren't fun, bottom line. That they said absolutely nothing about classes at BlizzCon was not encouraging.
Sadly, they are totally focused on mobile games, so no class fixes that aren't easily playable on the new WoW Mobile (to be announced at next Blizzcon).
lol WoW is dead, it's being milked to fuel Diablo Immortal and other mobile game development.

The higher ups could care less about gameplay. as long as the addicts have a reason to log in day after day, month after month.
I mentioned this in another thread but i'll repeat the gist here:

We collectively complained hard about lack of content in both MOP and WOD. So blizzard adjusted their resource allocation to give us what we asked for.

Class design finals pre-alpha with a few tuning passes following, then the resources are re-allocated to patch content and are working on aggressive launch schedules considering Blizzards emphasis on continuous delivery of new content. Thus there is minimal bandwidth to constantly re-work, tune and change things that effect core gameplay mechanics of each class and spec.

We need to cut them some slack overall. They have delivered more content to WoW players since the beginning of Legion Pre-Patch to now than in any other time period prior. Also I think overall we can agree the content has been high quality in general.

What we should be asking for however is a slight re-balancing of their budget to allow for more bandwidth to iterate on class design and game mechanics throughout each expansion lifecycle. BUT we must accept that this would come with the sacrifice of less content - unless of course Activision wants to re-invest and increase WoW's budget.

I for one would urge Blizzard to look at class design in a more holistic way:

Design class/spec mechanics and gameplay to interact with the content in interesting ways rather than focusing on these abstract niches we often hear about. Specific spec mechanics that interact with specific raid mechanics and encounters, as well as M+ mechanics and Rated PvP. A holistic design to give people fun/interesting/challenging interactions with the content in each game mode.
11/09/2018 05:17 PMPosted by Drakaeon
We need to cut them some slack overall.


Why? They have made classes consistently worse for three xpacs in a row, all while completely ignoring the players. They deserve any negativity that goes their way - they've earned it. The only way they do anything is if subs sink so low they are forced to actually go look at feedback and be "surprised" people are upset. The class development in WoW is absolute garbage and Blizzard should be completely ashamed of their product. That they aren't, and do nothing tells a lot about them as a company - nothing good.
I would much prefer they slowed down the content train and actually made the classes fun again. The art/environment is amazing and story is okay IMO but you can't enjoy any of it because of classes being hollow. I can stand running the boring wqs if I'm having fun with my favorite classes.

I still don't understand the need for the WoD -> Legion major revamp. I know a lot of people pine for MoP but I think most of the specs were in good shape at the end of WoD still. Instead of building off that and fine-tuning, they just took a sledgehammer and smashed everything into boring/generic classes.
Pre 8.0 I had no issues running the same old content over and over because I loved my hunter. He was so much fun to play. The prospect of new content was just icing on the cake. But 8.0 killed him for me. It doesn't matter how big and delicious a cake is when your jaw's busted and your tongue's been cut out.

This game holds a lot of memories for my wife and me, as we've been playing together since 2004. The most fun we've ever had in WoW was playing our hunters together in Legion. But because of 8.0 we haven't bought BFA and haven't renewed our subscriptions, and won't until we get word that our class has been fixed.
Because WoW has the stupid policy of no major overhauls during xpacs. Even though every single spec needs one.
The devs focus on content that probably won't last past this xpac. Instead of focusing on one of the aspects of WoW that continue xpac to xpac.
Cut them some slack? Yeah... nah. I pay to play. This isnt a volunteer game dev studio.

I have certain expectations for my money, but the basic gist is good value and no mediocrity. Unfortunately neither is being met with this expac, therefore I cant keep paying

They absolutely must fix shadow priest spec to the point where it is enjoyable to play before i will pay them again
As long as we keep paying they will not listen
11/09/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Majyka
11/09/2018 05:17 PMPosted by Drakaeon
We need to cut them some slack overall.


Why? They have made classes consistently worse for three xpacs in a row, all while completely ignoring the players. They deserve any negativity that goes their way - they've earned it. The only way they do anything is if subs sink so low they are forced to actually go look at feedback and be "surprised" people are upset. The class development in WoW is absolute garbage and Blizzard should be completely ashamed of their product. That they aren't, and do nothing tells a lot about them as a company - nothing good.


I’d like to add that they’ve had 14 years to figure out class design. They’re dysfunctional, and they refuse to learn from their mistakes.
11/08/2018 12:13 PMPosted by Ornasse
I'm not going to play all this new content if my classes aren't fun, bottom line. That they said absolutely nothing about classes at BlizzCon was not encouraging.


^^^^^^^^ The reason I'm still Level 100
11/09/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Majyka
11/09/2018 05:17 PMPosted by Drakaeon
We need to cut them some slack overall.


Why? They have made classes consistently worse for three xpacs in a row, all while completely ignoring the players. They deserve any negativity that goes their way - they've earned it. The only way they do anything is if subs sink so low they are forced to actually go look at feedback and be "surprised" people are upset. The class development in WoW is absolute garbage and Blizzard should be completely ashamed of their product. That they aren't, and do nothing tells a lot about them as a company - nothing good.


I legit made a post in Mage forums the other day, because I truly, legitimately, and sincerely question if the mage class has a dev or class designer who actually plays all three of the mage specs, and when the last time they sat down and played arcane for more than 5 minutes. I don’t play fire or frost, but from what I have heard they are not in the best of places (PVE wise) and arcane is in desperate need of something/anything besides “Numbers Tuning.” Numbers are not the issue with Arcane, it’s the spec design at this point. It was gutted without the legion artifact traits and leggos. There isn’t Tier anymore to bandaid fix it. Azerite triats have minimal impacts rotationally on the spec. The interactions with the clearcasting, Arcane Power on GCD, and the reduction on abilities that Arcane Power actually powers up has left this spec in some forgotten trench where Blizz thinks that numbers are all we care about. That’s the FoTM people not the ones who at one time loved the spec.
IMHO, Adding what should be class skills as random drops on gear was a giant mistake. When it was just on the weapon and the skill and gear weren't coupled it was manageable.

But all these traits on 3 pieces of gear, not sure you can balance that. I'm really curious as to what would happen if they just removed all the azerite traits from the game. I suspect the classes might be balanced at that point.
11/11/2018 01:40 AMPosted by Thequixote
IMHO, Adding what should be class skills as random drops on gear was a giant mistake. When it was just on the weapon and the skill and gear weren't coupled it was manageable.


Amen to that.

It worked for legion because you always had the weapon in question.

11/11/2018 01:40 AMPosted by Thequixote
But all these traits on 3 pieces of gear, not sure you can balance that. I'm really curious as to what would happen if they just removed all the azerite traits from the game. I suspect the classes might be balanced at that point.


The azerite system is terrible it truly is but it isn't the main source of the problem. Many specs are so lazily designed its insulting and some are such a hot mess that you wonder if they did it on purpose. I won't even get into the specs they have admitted to not being ready for launch.

No the devs needs to start from very beginning and fix things one thing at a time. Frankly they should of been working on these problems right at the start especially the specs that they have admitted weren't finished they should of been patched in awhile ago to be honest.
11/11/2018 01:40 AMPosted by Thequixote
IMHO, Adding what should be class skills as random drops on gear was a giant mistake. When it was just on the weapon and the skill and gear weren't coupled it was manageable.

But all these traits on 3 pieces of gear, not sure you can balance that. I'm really curious as to what would happen if they just removed all the azerite traits from the game. I suspect the classes might be balanced at that point.


It's worse than that though-
We went from the Beta stage of Azerite traits replacing class skills to the 8.1/Blizzcon/Q&A mentality that Azerite traits are supposed to be roughly equivalent to each other so you don't need to sim the options to decide what to equip....

while not replacing class skills at all.

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