I edited the Steve Jobs interview to fit WoW

General Discussion
I was watching this interview and this part stuck out to me about what I feel has been going wrong at Blizzard lately. I edited the quote to talk about Blizzard rather than Xerox, but I think it fits. I highly recommend watching the interview though, it's fantastic (Steve Jobs - The Lost Interview). You can find the part I'm referring to at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM
How do you guys feel about this?

"...the technology crashed and burned at Blizzard. Why? Oh, very simple. I actually thought a lot about that... and I learned more about that with John Scully later on and I think I understand it now pretty well. What happens is, like with John Scully. John came from PepsiCo and they at most would change their product, you know, once every ten years. I mean to them a new product was like a new size bottle. So, if you were a product person, you couldn't change the course of that company very much. So who influences the success of PepsiCo? The sales and marketing people. Therefore they were the ones that got promoted and they were the ones that ran the company.

Well, for PepsiCo that might have been ok, but it turns out the same thing can happen in technology companies that get monopolies like, oh, Blizzard with World of Warcraft. If you are a product person at Blizzard *shrugs* so you make a better sequel, a better expansion, so what? When you have a monopoly market share, the company's not any more successful. So the people who can make the company more successful are the sales and marketing people, and they end up running the companies, and the product people get driven out of the decision-making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products. The sort of product sensibility and the product genius that brought them to that monopolistic position gets rotted out by people running these companies who have no conception of a good product versus a bad product. They have no conception of the craftsmanship that's required to take a good idea and turn it into a good product, and they really have no feeling in their hearts usually about wanting to really help the customers."
I am not sure how it applies.

Are we stating Blizzard had a monopoly on mmos?
11/12/2018 05:35 AMPosted by Akston
I am not sure how it applies.

Are we stating Blizzard had a monopoly on mmos?


Absolutely.

Even if you don't subscribe to that, it's still being run by sales and marketing rather than product people.
11/12/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
11/12/2018 05:35 AMPosted by Akston
I am not sure how it applies.

Are we stating Blizzard had a monopoly on mmos?


Absolutely.


Ok.. I mean. They didn't. But ok.
11/12/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Akston
11/12/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
...

Absolutely.


Ok.. I mean. They didn't. But ok.
Monopoly, sitting at the top by a large margin, both are quite similar. Semantics aside, it still very much fits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yqUpypQwGs
11/12/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
11/12/2018 05:35 AMPosted by Akston
I am not sure how it applies.

Are we stating Blizzard had a monopoly on mmos?


Absolutely.

Even if you don't subscribe to that, it's still being run by sales and marketing rather than product people.


But .. they don't have a monopoly. Not even close.
11/12/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
11/12/2018 05:35 AMPosted by Akston
I am not sure how it applies.

Are we stating Blizzard had a monopoly on mmos?


Absolutely.

Even if you don't subscribe to that, it's still being run by sales and marketing rather than product people.


That's not how a monopoly works...
SO you've posted/made a thread about this at least twice now.

sure, it has some merit and is interesting to put into perspective.

There isn't a whole lot of marketing going on at blizzard (WoW specifically), I'd assume they spend less than 20% in that division.
11/12/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Glastian
11/12/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Akston
...

Ok.. I mean. They didn't. But ok.
Monopoly, sitting at the top by a large margin, both are quite similar. Semantics aside, it still very much fits.


It fits only if you choose to ignore the reasons it doesn't fit and you're just extrapolating whatever distaste you have for the game into hysterical predictions.

Its a good message from Steve Jobs, but you're acting like there aren't people who don't like iPhones, or that somehow if you exclude other business decision makers that all of a sudden the product will be magical and everyone will like it.

That's nonsense. There's no evidence that accounting (or whatever hussy you want to throw in there) are driving the game direction and there's no reason to assume they are. Designers can make products you don't like just as easily.
11/12/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Glastian
11/12/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Akston
...

Ok.. I mean. They didn't. But ok.
Monopoly, sitting at the top by a large margin, both are quite similar. Semantics aside, it still very much fits.


But they are fundamentally different, and those specific differences are why many things in the quote don't apply.

For instance, the cornerstone argument is that the product stays the same (due to the monopoly), while marketing is all that matters.

At what point in WoW's history..going expansion to expansion..do you feel that the product remained the exact same? That Blizzard was not trying *something* different on an expansion to expansion basis?

One of the most repetitive gripes on the forums is how WoW tries to "reinvent the wheel" with class design every expansion. How things have changed so much since >insert your favorite expansion here<.

If that quote is to apply to WoW, it would mean at some point they stopped changing things, fell into a holding pattern...which they clearly didn't.
11/12/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Mvura
11/12/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
...

Absolutely.

Even if you don't subscribe to that, it's still being run by sales and marketing rather than product people.


But .. they don't have a monopoly. Not even close.
they are the only ones with a decent product. call it what you want. if they had any real competition they might of actually gave a !@#$ on what they were putting out and how much they really cared whether good or garbage like bfa is right now. waiting on a patch to hopefully fix expansion is quite sad. they learnt nothing from legion and the whole legendary thing and ap garbage. why is it the main feature of an expac is garbage when it's released shouldn't it be like what you really work on so its good?
11/12/2018 05:55 AMPosted by Wetrobrute
SO you've posted/made a thread about this at least twice now.

sure, it has some merit and is interesting to put into perspective.

There isn't a whole lot of marketing going on at blizzard (WoW specifically), I'd assume they spend less than 20% in that division.
cause they don't care for wow anymore but they sure spend lots more on other games.
11/12/2018 05:58 AMPosted by Akston
At what point in WoW's history..going expansion to expansion..do you feel that the product remained the exact same? That Blizzard was not trying *something* different on an expansion to expansion basis?


I don't feel it remained the exact same. I feel that the changes stopped being made by product people who wanted a better product, and started being made by sales and marketing people who wanted better profits.
11/12/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Kissmytotems
they are the only ones with a decent product. call it what you want.


Call what what I want?

You just presented your opinion as a fact.

That's the primary issue I take with this thread. It jumbles up a bunch of personal opinions with platitudes in an attempt to make some kind of overarching judgement call about product design.

Its absurd.

If Jobs was in charge of World of Warcraft, half of you would be furious because he'd drive his team to cut any features that weren't 100% perfect.
11/12/2018 05:55 AMPosted by Wetrobrute
SO you've posted/made a thread about this at least twice now.


Do you mind linking the other one? I can't seem to find it in my post history, or remember doing it.
11/12/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
11/12/2018 05:58 AMPosted by Akston
At what point in WoW's history..going expansion to expansion..do you feel that the product remained the exact same? That Blizzard was not trying *something* different on an expansion to expansion basis?


I don't feel it remained the exact same. I feel that the changes stopped being made by product people who wanted a better product, and started being made by sales and marketing people who wanted better profits.


Ok. Well. I can't argue with feelings. Especially ones that have no basis in facts.

I strongly disagree with your conclusion, but its your feelings to have. I just can't see a single thing that looks like WoW was designed by a marketing or sales rep.

I mean...and bear with me here. This is a huge leap in logic.

Don't most companies think trying to make a quality game people enjoy is one of the key aspects for better profits? Show me how intentionally making a lesser quality game increases profits.
11/12/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Flamethrøwer
I feel that the changes stopped being made by product people who wanted a better product, and started being made by sales and marketing people who wanted better profits.


What you feel is that you aren't as jazzed about certain elements of the game.

The rest is just projection.
11/12/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Mvura
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Absolutely.

Even if you don't subscribe to that, it's still being run by sales and marketing rather than product people.


But .. they don't have a monopoly. Not even close.


Could I trouble you for a list of serious threats to WoW's hold on the MMO market (aside from Blizzard itself)?
11/12/2018 06:05 AMPosted by Akston
Ok. Well. I can't argue with feelings. Especially ones that have no basis in facts.


I was using your word. You said 'feel'. You really can't look at Blizzard's staffing history and draw any other conclusion.

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