Sylvanas got "retconed"

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Are any of you who are saying it was always implied actually play during Wrath? The only implication ever is that when the plague is deployed Arthas thinks it is Sylvanas. Hes is mistaken. Grand Apothecary Putress and Varimathras are responsible and nowhere in game does it state or even hint otherwise.

Varimathras never alludes to Sylvanas being involved either at the Siege of Undercity or Antorus.

Thrall dispatches forces to Undercity after Wrathgate because it is believed that perhaps Sylvanas cannot keep the Forsaken under control.

Also remember that in Wrath Sylvanas does not realize that she is going to Blizzard hell when she perma-death. It is only AFTER everything that happens in Wrath does Sylvanas off herself and realize what awaits her. That is when the bargain is made between Sylvanas and the Val'kyr.

This Sylvanas has always been off the rails and behind the Wrathgate is stupid.
11/12/2018 04:19 PMPosted by Thera
Not a retcon. It was always a possibility that She was responsible for the Wrathgate and She was smart enough to cover her tracks. The community was split about it for all these years as well.


Ok but it makes no sense that Putress and the Dreadlord would both cover for her while she sacked her own city.

I guess you can write away anything with mind control/magic but this is not something that seems like she would need an elaborate cover-up plot for.
I remember seeing the leaked Wrathgate cinematic and being so hopeful that WotLK would create an undead faction to play on.

I was all "Yay! Forsaken are turning on the stupid horde and going to kill everybody!"

Then in the game it was extremely disappointing because it was just a rogue Forsaken dude. Who I was not allowed to join.

Damnit Blizz we need an undead faction whose goal is to kill all life.

And they should win.
11/12/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Mardrigala
Umm...she's been having the RAS develop a new plague/blight since Vanilla? The only 'retcon' is her being responsible for Putress's attack at the Wrathgate, and even that's up for debate.


Don’t think it’s up for debate, iirc one of the writers recently just flat out said she was responsible.
11/12/2018 03:20 PMPosted by Svidinn
"She's evil therefore she did wrathgate" seems to be what many are implying here.

I don't know if she's evil. It's up for debate if she did wrathgate. However, her being evil does not necessarily mean she's responsible for every evil thing done around her.

That's like saying Dark Irons were responsible for the destruction of Gnomeregan just because there's a couple Dark Iron agents there.


She had no problem releasing the plague on gilneas.
11/12/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Moonsorrows
Ok but it makes no sense that Putress and the Dreadlord would both cover for her while she sacked her own city.

They didn't have to "cover" for her. All she would have had to do was know they were going to enact a coup, and then pretend to be a poor little victim.

They can still be entirely guilty for plotting and enacting a coup, while Sylvanas can still have ordered the Wrathgate and the creation of the plague.
11/12/2018 03:03 PMPosted by Marmoud
"She have been always off the rails"
she has been

11/12/2018 03:03 PMPosted by Marmoud
"Sylvanas was responsible for Wrathgate and the the plague"
and she was responsible for the plague.

the only retcon is her being responsible for wrathgate.
It's incredibly stupid.
11/12/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Kelisaria

They didn't have to "cover" for her. All she would have had to do was know they were going to enact a coup, and then pretend to be a poor little victim.

They can still be entirely guilty for plotting and enacting a coup, while Sylvanas can still have ordered the Wrathgate and the creation of the plague.


The problem though is that when Sylvanas jumps in to take them out, they could have revealed that she did Wrathgate and ruin her/split the enemy forces. But they didn't do this. I think either or both of them would have done this out of spite if not out of strategy.
11/12/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Tovi
I don’t care anymore. They’ve ruined her.


No, she's the same character she has always been. They just ruined your idea of what she was by giving her screen time.
11/12/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Moonsorrows
The problem though is that when Sylvanas jumps in to take them out, they could have revealed that she did Wrathgate and ruin her/split the enemy forces.

Why would they need to? They were likely operating on the assumption that everyone blamed her for it, which, while correct, they didn't take into account her blaming them for it.

The only "proof" that we have that Sylvanas wasn't behind the Wrathgate, was her own words. And Sylvanas was always a liar.

11/12/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Moonsorrows
I think either or both of them would have done this out of spite if not out of strategy.

Simple overconfidence can easily explain it.
11/12/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Moonsorrows
11/12/2018 04:19 PMPosted by Thera
Not a retcon. It was always a possibility that She was responsible for the Wrathgate and She was smart enough to cover her tracks. The community was split about it for all these years as well.


Ok but it makes no sense that Putress and the Dreadlord would both cover for her while she sacked her own city.

I guess you can write away anything with mind control/magic but this is not something that seems like she would need an elaborate cover-up plot for.


Putress has no need of an explanation. Forsaken will do anything and everything for the Banshee Queen so He can sacrifice himself for her Queen easily.

Varimatras is different however, when you face him in the Undercity, He is using all of this commotion for his own agenda. His only goal is to summon his master and nothing else it seems. You can never trust a dreadlord anyway.

Putress has been working on the new plague under the order of Sylvanas, thinking that He can do anything to oppose his Queen is quite a stretch as How can He think that He has any chance of taking over the Undercity or become the leader of Forsaken.
If she wasn't suspect for it, **Thrall wouldn't have put Undercity under watch by his Kor'kron.


**Garrosh
11/12/2018 04:45 PMPosted by Triggurs
If she wasn't suspect for it, **Thrall wouldn't have put Undercity under watch by his Kor'kron.


**Garrosh

No, Thrall. Thrall was Warchief during the Wrathgate incident, not Garrosh. Thrall is the one who stationed the Kor'kron there.
11/12/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Thera


Putress has been working on the new plague under the order of Sylvanas, thinking that He can do anything to oppose his Queen is quite a stretch as How can He think that He has any chance of taking over the Undercity or become the leader of Forsaken.


Then why would he join the coup anyway if he knew he'd lose? I truly Do Not Get It.
11/12/2018 03:03 PMPosted by Marmoud
WTF is this "Sylvanas was responsible for Wrathgate and the the plague"

This is about the biggest "Duh" moment for many WoW players it seems.

I never bought the excuse it was all just some "rogue" faction within the undead. Either Sylvanas knew and/or ordered the Wrathgate attack, which honestly seems perfectly inline with her character at the time or she was just a completely incompetent leader which would have been more out of character for her then compared to now, perhaps.

Horde players "wanted" her to not be involved with it, but really we all knew she was this whole time.
11/12/2018 04:47 PMPosted by Moonsorrows
11/12/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Thera


Putress has been working on the new plague under the order of Sylvanas, thinking that He can do anything to oppose his Queen is quite a stretch as How can He think that He has any chance of taking over the Undercity or become the leader of Forsaken.


Then why would he join the coup anyway if he knew he'd lose? I truly Do Not Get It.

Sylvanas could have asked him to start the coup, in order to sabotage Varimathras' efforts by starting it early and acting as a public lightning rod. Simply obfuscation to escape blame.
11/12/2018 04:49 PMPosted by Kelisaria
11/12/2018 04:47 PMPosted by Moonsorrows
...

Then why would he join the coup anyway if he knew he'd lose? I truly Do Not Get It.

Sylvanas could have asked him to start the coup, in order to sabotage Varimathras' efforts by starting it early and acting as a public lightning rod.

That doesn't fit b/c it only explains Putress who could be mind controlled anyway.
Why would Varimathras join a battle he'd know he'd lose, and then keep his lips sealed RE: wrath gate?
11/12/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Nadanson
Are any of you who are saying it was always implied actually play during Wrath? The only implication ever is that when the plague is deployed Arthas thinks it is Sylvanas. Hes is mistaken. Grand Apothecary Putress and Varimathras are responsible and nowhere in game does it state or even hint otherwise.

When I first saw the Wrathgate cutscene I just assumed Sylvanas was at least aware of it, if not outright responsible, because it sounded 100% like something she absolutely would do.
It honestly just feels like Team B hates Sylvanas and Team A loves sylvanas and I have no other explanation for this character. Trying to understand what the writers are trying to do here gives me a migraine.

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