Classic is too easy for 2019 playerbase

Classic Discussion
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 Next
11/14/2018 02:07 PMPosted by Yonjii
I've seen a lot of people on here saying, 'yes, mythic+ is difficult, but that doesn't count really'.

Why exactly does mythic + not matter? It's some of the most played content in the game right now.

It seems disregarded by a lot of people defending vanilla wow as being more difficult because it challenges their beliefs.

And yes, in a lot of progression mythic + groups, pulling more than one group is a death sentence. This was even the case before mythic + came out this expansion.

All I'm trying to say is that neither retail nor vanilla wow is terribly difficult. Both require a little forethought and planning, depending on what you're doing.

Vanilla is NOT more difficult than retail, each as its own unique challenges. Simple as that.

Stop trying to make everything fit your narrative.


Let's take the good that Blizzard does and discard the bad...

Why are people so die hard conservative on this Classic bull!@#$. There's a lot of problems with Classic and it can use some minor improvements.

I'm tired of the morons. We're not preaching for LFR, Server mergers, Race Changes, Pet Battles, etc.
Imagine thinking any version of wow is a hard game.
Tbh using 1.11 threat values would drastically alter the "difficulty" of end game raid content. I think the largest portion of the classic fan base here ARE in support of that change. Even if we are using .12 as the main template.

I'm very much hoping for a frakenpatch. As long as it takes the best parts of vanilla as a whole into account. I'd personally prefer 1.12 itemization, .11 threat, and old AV, and 16 debuff limits, that would be my ideal frankenpatch so to speak.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Don't forget to add
"make sure that you do not accidentally pull extra mobs".


Because you don't have to worry about that in retail, right? K.

Retail group quests are soloable.
Nough said.

But I am sadly a glutton for answering challenges. Too many people look at this in a single narrow line of focus, acting like difficulty is defined in the manner of which one sees, an aspect of difficulty rather than the entirety of what lies before them.

The difficulty of peeling a potato for instance. Without a tool one is left looking at the object and thinking of what it would require to peel said object with minimal output and in the easiest manner possible. One then gathers objects that could be used and then attempts to peel said potato without wasting any of the valuable inside to just chopping out corners. You are actively thinking "which knife works best? What angle and how far and deep should I cut at this point, what should I use to ease the gathering of peels as to not have to pick them off the floor".

Whereas to contain the necessary tool, a potato peeler in this case, one simply does the task that is required with less thought. The mechanics then change from trying to reduce wasted potato to dealing with the various curves and odd formations. It might seem more difficult as the potato's shape may be challenging but there is much less thought work put into it when one knows how to properly use the potato peeler.

For in this case the lacking of said potato peeler is like going into Vanilla. You have tools, they can be missused, but you actually have to think about what you are doing to get the best results and not waste valuable resource. Whereas the case with the proper tool you know what you are doing and how to do it, thought is less required here, the challenge comes in dealing with the circumstances ahead that you already see.

It's simply the concept of having to think and actually preview your surroundings. One who has this concept would find vanilla easy, but in doing so they are more likely to enjoy exercising such skills. I am using the term skill in the form of an ability to take an action rather than the amount of experience and ability one has mind you.

Vanilla's difficulty is not in a single ever sharpening blade but their broader use of said blade in how it is wielded.
Also.

11/13/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Melaned
The difficulty of the game is not simply defined by the ability to present one's skill in a set of acknowledging the mechanics of a fight and working around them alone. The difficulty of Vanilla WoW was presented in multiple formats from the social challenges to acquiring the aid you needed to liquid knowledge assets that forced the player to think of the scenario before them.

Simply defining difficulty in a single set aspect of the game like we see today in Current WoW is where people blind themselves into thinking that the mechanics behind Vanilla WoW make it less challenging. Whereas it is the unseen mechanics of the game being an open world that requires you to put in the effort to get things going that will be the true tests of skill. Not the simple skill of using a set of abilities in an order while following the mechanics of the opponent but the skills that make us human.

That is the true difficulty of Vanilla WoW.
(/thread)


Also it should be noted the argument is of the challenging of the concept of vanilla's difficulty with that of current WoW's. Not that either is complex and hard. Do not misunderstand that.
11/14/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Ðoomaxe
Finally we wiped once on Illidan cause people didn't know not to stand in fire.

hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahha
They literally "stood in the fire" LOL And I thought that was just a joke... LOL
Classic. . .
I love that thread.

Again that thread pertains to this one perfectly.
Say then when your healers go oom
11/14/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Savax
I love how the naysayers act like Vanilla players were somehow mindless morons who couldn't use email, never used a computer later than a Commodore 64, couldn't use search engines and never had played MMORPGs before.

"We didn't know what we were doing back then!"

Complete BS. Most of us had played much more difficult games like Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot, EverQuest, etc.

Online gaming or RPGs weren't new to the vast majority of early Vanilla players. Quit acting like Vanilla players were clueless idiots. It's ridiculous.


Good post man.

Blizzard's games were far more intricate and nuanced in the past. Activision ruined all of them to appeal to a larger casual audience, by dramatically simplifying the games for the lowest common denominator. (the OP)

And then those same uninformed people who do not, nay, could not even play the game are the first to tell you how easy Classic will be, and how toxic the community is. And you should expect nothing less from a game whose target audience is the most casual passer by.
11/14/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Yonjii
I've played this game since the day it came out and put THOUSANDS of hours into vanilla wow. It was definitely the peak of my wow career.

Vanilla was not difficult by any means and retail today is the same way.

If you learn your class and learn fight mechanics, there is nothing inherently difficult about this game.

I see people making arguments about how having to CC in vanilla dungeons makes the game difficult. Running up to a pack of mobs and casting polymorph on one of them is not a challenge.

Let's stop pretending like this game was every difficult. It simply takes time to learn a few things here and there, that's about the extent of it.


Most of us aren't saying it's hard. We are saying it's harder. Is ccing hard? No. But actually coordinating cc and Los pulls is harder then anything on live short of mythic dungeons and heroic/mythic raids.

Was leveling hard in vanilla? No. Is leveling in vanilla harder then live? Yes.

On the other hand. Mythic + and heroic/Mythic raids are harder then anything in vanilla.

11/14/2018 01:35 PMPosted by Ellilaine
...

Which is harder:

a) position yourself wherever because the area your ability hits is meaningless as all the mobs will clump on you and stay there doing pitiful damage
b) position yourself so your ae ability hits mob x but not mobs y & z beside/behind them so as not to break the CC

The correct answer is clear and obvious...


That's not even remotely how M+ functions which is now the "endgame" version of instances function.

Except your average wow player never touches mythic + dungeons or even a normal raid.
11/14/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Remember the level 100 MC event.
"Gonna be faceroll easy" turned into "Blizz do something. None of the pug groups can complete it".


Just wait until it is live and the vast majority of those playing classic are free-for-BFA accounts. Just you wait till these forums are 99.999999 nerf request threads.
true troll vanilla was harder all around in pretty much everything
11/14/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Brokenwind
11/14/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Remember the level 100 MC event.
"Gonna be faceroll easy" turned into "Blizz do something. None of the pug groups can complete it".


Just wait until it is live and the vast majority of those playing classic are free-for-BFA accounts. Just you wait till these forums are 99.999999 nerf request threads.

It will be glorious!
11/14/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Jatrazzak
Tbh using 1.11 threat values would drastically alter the "difficulty" of end game raid content. I think the largest portion of the classic fan base here ARE in support of that change. Even if we are using .12 as the main template.

I'm very much hoping for a frakenpatch. As long as it takes the best parts of vanilla as a whole into account. I'd personally prefer 1.12 itemization, .11 threat, and old AV, and 16 debuff limits, that would be my ideal frankenpatch so to speak.


True. I agree 100%.
11/14/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Hopera
11/14/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Jatrazzak
Tbh using 1.11 threat values would drastically alter the "difficulty" of end game raid content. I think the largest portion of the classic fan base here ARE in support of that change. Even if we are using .12 as the main template.

I'm very much hoping for a frakenpatch. As long as it takes the best parts of vanilla as a whole into account. I'd personally prefer 1.12 itemization, .11 threat, and old AV, and 16 debuff limits, that would be my ideal frankenpatch so to speak.


True. I agree 100%.


This, and I think he's talking about 1.10; no need to split hairs over a silly mistake.
11/13/2018 06:33 PMPosted by Hopera
and a lot of seasoned players agree but fear the toxic Classic community to speak up on this issue.


what is the problem? if people really feel how they feel about classic/vanilla and they have experienced it, they shouldn't be afraid of how others feel
11/14/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Veskr
11/14/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Savax
I love how the naysayers act like Vanilla players were somehow mindless morons who couldn't use email, never used a computer later than a Commodore 64, couldn't use search engines and never had played MMORPGs before.

"We didn't know what we were doing back then!"

Complete BS. Most of us had played much more difficult games like Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot, EverQuest, etc.

Online gaming or RPGs weren't new to the vast majority of early Vanilla players. Quit acting like Vanilla players were clueless idiots. It's ridiculous.


Good post man.

Blizzard's games were far more intricate and nuanced in the past. Activision ruined all of them to appeal to a larger casual audience, by dramatically simplifying the games for the lowest common denominator. (the OP)

And then those same uninformed people who do not, nay, could not even play the game are the first to tell you how easy Classic will be, and how toxic the community is. And you should expect nothing less from a game whose target audience is the most casual passer by.


Vanilla was the easy mode MMO by design at the time, the reason why it was so popular was because they designed it to be incredibly simple and easy so everyone could play it.

Sure if you want to say it's harder than retail in some areas fine, but you're comparing taco bell mild to medium hot sauce, when you compare them to a real hot sauce they both taste the same and aren't spicy at all. That's how vanilla's difficulty compares to retail.
11/14/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Melaned
11/14/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Brokenwind
...

Just wait until it is live and the vast majority of those playing classic are free-for-BFA accounts. Just you wait till these forums are 99.999999 nerf request threads.

It will be glorious!


Can't wait to see someone think they can solo a group of Murlocs.
11/14/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Starmage
11/13/2018 06:33 PMPosted by Hopera
and a lot of seasoned players agree but fear the toxic Classic community to speak up on this issue.


what is the problem? if people really feel how they feel about classic/vanilla and they have experienced it, they shouldn't be afraid of how others feel


Nobody likes toxicity, that's the problem. Most Classic forum people don't even acknowledge anything they type. They see something that disagrees and call it trolling and respond with toxicity.
11/14/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Thèón
Nobody likes toxicity, that's the problem. Most Classic forum people don't even acknowledge anything they type. They see something that disagrees and call it trolling and respond with toxicity


then do what rebels do, ignore others and say how ya feel.

edit: also you can report trolling and spam.
11/14/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Savax
11/14/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Melaned
...
It will be glorious!


Can't wait to see someone think they can solo a group of Murlocs.
there is no such thing as just a group of murlocs. The filthy creatures are the spawn of satan.
11/14/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Thèón
11/14/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Starmage
...

what is the problem? if people really feel how they feel about classic/vanilla and they have experienced it, they shouldn't be afraid of how others feel


Nobody likes toxicity, that's the problem. Most Classic forum people don't even acknowledge anything they type. They see something that disagrees and call it trolling and respond with toxicity.


Even worse is people who talk about how easy Vanilla was on the forums and never actually played it.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum