Classic is too easy for 2019 playerbase

Classic Discussion
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11/14/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Starmage
11/14/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Thèón
Nobody likes toxicity, that's the problem. Most Classic forum people don't even acknowledge anything they type. They see something that disagrees and call it trolling and respond with toxicity


then do what rebels do, ignore others and say how ya feel.

edit: also you can report trolling and spam.


I know you can report trolling and spam. I've probably been reported a ton on the past few days for disagreeing with the no changes !@#$. My thoughts and opinions are trolling to most people on this forum and the toxicity turns people away from saying how they feel.

One particular Brokenwind player called me a troll for disagreeing with him, and AFTER I responded to his posts he would edit them, changing what he wrote to make it seem like my responses were coming from nowhere out of the blue and he then claimed I didn't even respond to his points, which he so kindly edited in AFTER I responded. This kind of !@#$ dissuades people from wanting to post.
11/14/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Brokenwind
11/14/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Remember the level 100 MC event.
"Gonna be faceroll easy" turned into "Blizz do something. None of the pug groups can complete it".


Just wait until it is live and the vast majority of those playing classic are free-for-BFA accounts. Just you wait till these forums are 99.999999 nerf request threads.


so thats where we are now, from "Classic will kill BfA" to "Current players will make up the majority of the playerbase", and they are just chomping at the bit to come ruin it for everyone,lol.

and there is no such thing as a BfA sub now or in the future, there is only a WoW sub and EVERYONE gets Classic AND Base WoW for free.

And also, calling for nerfs is not a new thing that your very scary current playerbase invented, people have done it since launch.
Why is it too far out of the question to ask for a MC, Ony, and BWL, and Tier 1 re-balance..? This s*** is outdated and will get stomped with the 1.12 talents and class changes....

It's just the truth, you can cry all you want but I've seen it... Pre-BiS + 1.12 talent trees, you'll be farming raids by second week and passing on tier sets because they aren't better than your blue BiS that gives +healing, etc.
From a mechanics perspective it is certainly much easier, however, as I believe either a youtuber or a someone on the forums once mentioned: classic was about time and resource management.

Which, to be honest, in a world where we are all used to just nuking all the things; is a skillset in its own right.
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hopera
Why is it too far out of the question to ask for a MC, Ony, and BWL, and Tier 1 re-balance..? This s*** is outdated and will get stomped with the 1.12 talents and class changes....

It's just the truth, you can cry all you want but I've seen it... Pre-BiS + 1.12 talent trees, you'll be farming raids by second week and passing on tier sets because they aren't better than your blue BiS that gives +healing, etc.


Well if you want raids rebalanced in a way you consider more fun I want classes rebalanced in a way I consider more fun.
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hopera
Why is it too far out of the question to ask for a MC, Ony, and BWL, and Tier 1 re-balance..? This s*** is outdated and will get stomped with the 1.12 talents and class changes....

It's just the truth, you can cry all you want but I've seen it... Pre-BiS + 1.12 talent trees, you'll be farming raids by second week and passing on tier sets because they aren't better than your blue BiS that gives +healing, etc.

To answer your question. Because rebalancing opens the door even further for others to ask for other changes. Case in point.

11/14/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Ziryus
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hopera
Why is it too far out of the question to ask for a MC, Ony, and BWL, and Tier 1 re-balance..? This s*** is outdated and will get stomped with the 1.12 talents and class changes....

It's just the truth, you can cry all you want but I've seen it... Pre-BiS + 1.12 talent trees, you'll be farming raids by second week and passing on tier sets because they aren't better than your blue BiS that gives +healing, etc.


Well if you want raids rebalanced in a way you consider more fun I want classes rebalanced in a way I consider more fun.

Yeah sure. You can have the bfa balance you want. In bfa
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Can't wait to see someone think they can solo a group of Murlocs.
there is no such thing as just a group of murlocs. The filthy creatures are the spawn of satan.

lmfao.

So checked back into the other thread and OMG I CAN'T DO IT ANYMORE....
"Blizzard does a poor job of teaching players the game and their classes too.

They leave it to the fan sites that often have conflicting information.

Blizzards stand point is 'I already got your money bro'"
THAT'S LITERALLY ASKING FOR MORE HANDHOLDING!! LOL
and then another post mentioning toxic masculinity LOLOLOL OMG... I just can't...

Edit:
NOW THERE'S A 2ND THREAD ABOUT BT ALONE!!
hahahahahahahaahah LMFAO. I.. no I cannot go on!
11/13/2018 06:57 PMPosted by Lorissa
11/13/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Härländ
...

Eh so far the Classic demo looks nothing like and plays nothing like 1.12.

I would not be so sure they're 100% married to a raw state of 1.12 because of how game breaking it actually is for early raids.

I would be willing to bet they re-consider things like Original AV being that its most popular, and threat management as a PVE mechanic because it gives back the depth that Pre-Naxx vanilla raiding actually had but does not exist in the 1.11 / 1.12 "NERFED" state.
They said 1.12 is the oldest version they have a complete data set for and that is why they are using it. Sounds like they are stuck with 1.12 unless they reinvent something older from scratch.


There's going to be some sort of "tuning" regardless. Remember, they have the 1.12 numbers, but it still has to be translated into retail combat metrics. Now what their goal is we don't know. If i were a betting man, I still would say they want the feel of 1.12 because frankly it would take the least amount of work.

But yeah, I hope they do some sort of re-tune to the older content. I would love the original of every instance, but frankly it would be a !@#$ block to most of the people playing it - retail and private server a like. I don't think people could live through 2-3 hour undead strath runs where 1 wipe = start over.
11/14/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Ziryus
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hopera
Why is it too far out of the question to ask for a MC, Ony, and BWL, and Tier 1 re-balance..? This s*** is outdated and will get stomped with the 1.12 talents and class changes....

It's just the truth, you can cry all you want but I've seen it... Pre-BiS + 1.12 talent trees, you'll be farming raids by second week and passing on tier sets because they aren't better than your blue BiS that gives +healing, etc.


Well if you want raids rebalanced in a way you consider more fun I want classes rebalanced in a way I consider more fun.

The option of preserving the elements of Vanilla WoW is the primary goal behind wanting raids to be altered as it is believed that with the 1.12 setup and the way that certain dungeons will be released that the raids that had been difficult for a large portion of the Vanilla era would be nothing like they were throughout a large portion of the game's original run.

While the concept of balancing classes is exactly the opposite in furthering the classic experience away from that of Vanilla.

Quite simple really.
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Alorandis
From a mechanics perspective it is certainly much easier, however, as I believe either a youtuber or a someone on the forums once mentioned: classic was about time and resource management.

Which, to be honest, in a world where we are all used to just nuking all the things; is a skillset in its own right.


Vanilla as an experience was about time and resource management. However, if we start at 1.12, if pservers are accurate, it's going to be easy mode. No resource management needed. A lot more time than retail, but still not much time.

When people say "FRESH", it is perfectly applicable in more ways than one. People stay "fresh" because things die so quickly and dungeons get cleared so quickly.

People love ripping on Retail players, but frankly, I put players wanting nothing but the easy mode 1.12 experience as not much better than Retailers wanting guild banks and quest icons.
11/14/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Ziryus
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Good post man.

Blizzard's games were far more intricate and nuanced in the past. Activision ruined all of them to appeal to a larger casual audience, by dramatically simplifying the games for the lowest common denominator. (the OP)

And then those same uninformed people who do not, nay, could not even play the game are the first to tell you how easy Classic will be, and how toxic the community is. And you should expect nothing less from a game whose target audience is the most casual passer by.


Vanilla was the easy mode MMO by design at the time, the reason why it was so popular was because they designed it to be incredibly simple and easy so everyone could play it.

Sure if you want to say it's harder than retail in some areas fine, but you're comparing taco bell mild to medium hot sauce, when you compare them to a real hot sauce they both taste the same and aren't spicy at all. That's how vanilla's difficulty compares to retail.


-"Vanilla was the easy mode MMO by design at the time"

Classic had cut a lot of the fat out compared to those other mmo's we already mentioned, and was relatively easier than them.

-"they designed it to be incredibly simple and easy so everyone could play it."

Not true according to Rob Pardo (lead designer) and Jeff Kaplan (game designer) 2004, as they explain here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBbeLSgm1c&feature=youtu.be&t=6m55s

So while classic did trim the fat, it was by no means made for everyone to play easily like in BFA, quite to the contrary. It required a tremendous effort just to reach max lvl and that's when the fun really starts.

Achievements are hard fought and hard won in classic, in BFA everyone gets a participation trophy. Therefore the mild to medium sauce analogy is an invalid comparison. As these are two completely different games.
11/14/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Xanthak
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Alorandis
From a mechanics perspective it is certainly much easier, however, as I believe either a youtuber or a someone on the forums once mentioned: classic was about time and resource management.

Which, to be honest, in a world where we are all used to just nuking all the things; is a skillset in its own right.


Vanilla as an experience was about time and resource management. However, if we start at 1.12, if pservers are accurate, it's going to be easy mode. No resource management needed. A lot more time than retail, but still not much time.

When people say "FRESH", it is perfectly applicable in more ways than one. People stay "fresh" because things die so quickly and dungeons get cleared so quickly.

I agree. I honestly feel we need a serious beta session to find everything that sort of kills the aspects that made vanilla what it was, and get Blizzard to do the "frankenpatch" idea.

Because no one patch really best represented Vanilla.
OP, I know you were trolling, but dang it thank you cus would not have found that other thread and gone on about it if not for this one LOL.
11/14/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Matcauthon
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hopera
Why is it too far out of the question to ask for a MC, Ony, and BWL, and Tier 1 re-balance..? This s*** is outdated and will get stomped with the 1.12 talents and class changes....

It's just the truth, you can cry all you want but I've seen it... Pre-BiS + 1.12 talent trees, you'll be farming raids by second week and passing on tier sets because they aren't better than your blue BiS that gives +healing, etc.

To answer your question. Because rebalancing opens the door even further for others to ask for other changes. Case in point.

11/14/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Ziryus
...

Well if you want raids rebalanced in a way you consider more fun I want classes rebalanced in a way I consider more fun.

Yeah sure. You can have the bfa balance you want. In bfa


What are you talking about..? Where did I say I want BFA balance? There's literally 3 extra classes to account for and the gameplay is completely different...
11/14/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Hopera
11/14/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Matcauthon
...
To answer your question. Because rebalancing opens the door even further for others to ask for other changes. Case in point.

...
Yeah sure. You can have the bfa balance you want. In bfa


What are you talking about..? Where did I say I want BFA balance? There's literally 3 extra classes to account for and the gameplay is completely different...


My point was that if you start refining the raids you will add more fuel for the pro change crowd to ask for changes. And I highlighted ziryus post to prove my point. Because he literally said "well If you rebalance raids you should rebalance classes as well".
11/14/2018 09:22 PMPosted by Matcauthon
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What are you talking about..? Where did I say I want BFA balance? There's literally 3 extra classes to account for and the gameplay is completely different...


My point was that if you start refining the raids you will add more fuel for the pro change crowd to ask for changes. And I highlighted ziryus post to prove my point. Because he literally said "well If you rebalance raids you should rebalance classes as well".


Even if you don't refine anything, it's still a change. No content is relevant at 1.12 apart from Naxx. And there are people here who want to play vanilla wow, not Naxx wow.

If you want Classic to be "rush to Naxx" then yes, using 1.12 is the best option. That was the whole intention of 1.12, to allow players a chance to enter Naxx(farm previous dungeons pn easy mode) just before TBC hit.
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My point was that if you start refining the raids you will add more fuel for the pro change crowd to ask for changes. And I highlighted ziryus post to prove my point. Because he literally said "well If you rebalance raids you should rebalance classes as well".


Even if you don't refine anything, it's still a change. No content is relevant at 1.12 apart from Naxx. And there are people here who want to play vanilla wow, not Naxx wow.

If you want Classic to be "rush to Naxx" then yes, using 1.12 is the best option. That was the whole intention of 1.12, to allow players a chance to enter Naxx(farm previous dungeons pn easy mode) just before TBC hit.

Oh trust me I wish we got two separate patches. One pre 1.12 and one post. But the fact is that people should have enough common sense to not ask for post vanilla crap but we have people almost daily asking for class balance changes, transmog, etc and frankly I am getting sick of it.

On top of that, for years classic fans were ridiculed and taunted and told to shut up about classic and it would never happen.
When we finally got it at first they called it a waste of resources and ridiculed us for wanting to waste blizzards time and money, and then they came in suggesting all sorts of changes, and when we tell them no WE are the ones who get labeled as toxic and mean.
They want to change a game they didn't even want. Think about that.
But despite this all we are the ones who are the bad guys? For defending the game we actually Want? Bull.
11/13/2018 06:37 PMPosted by Matcauthon
Except dungeons in vanilla will be harder then what most live players ever experience.


I'm having flashbacks to the release of Cata....
11/14/2018 10:44 PMPosted by Forchancooki
11/13/2018 06:37 PMPosted by Matcauthon
Except dungeons in vanilla will be harder then what most live players ever experience.


I'm having flashbacks to the release of Cata....


Exactly my point.
Anyone who says that vanilla dungeons weren't harder...
Do you remember when cataclysm went live and the entire generation of wrath players collectively lost it?

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