Skip, skip, skip. Tired of it.

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10/26/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Ghuldokk
10/26/2018 12:05 PMPosted by Hirai
And besides, nobody has provided any reason why people should be skipping things in XP dungeons, lol. You're just limiting yourself and getting less XP/time by doing so.


What about the multitude of people saying 90% of the exp and rewards comes from the quests and dungeon completion, not trash mobs giving a meager amount of exp?

You lose an awful lot of exp per hour if that's what you want to go by. Dungeons are not time efficient for exp, much so less the trash mobs in them.


Once you do your first dungeon per day, you get very little out of the completion compared to the XP you get out of mob kills. 3-5k XP per kill adds up when you pull packs of 5 at a time. One quest gives 17,000 XP so you're getting almost a quest and a half worth per pull and quests are one-time.

Dungeons would be great XP if it weren't for the wait times and people skipping everything.
10/26/2018 12:05 PMPosted by Hirai
And besides, nobody has provided any reason why people should be skipping things in XP dungeons, lol. You're just limiting yourself and getting less XP/time by doing so.


That is a self limitation set by yourself.

If you attempt to full clear each and every dungeon while leveling, the other person tanking another one will level twice as fast as you, because they're rushing end rewards, which are far superior to adding 10-15 more minutes of trash killing onto your dungeon.

The xp gained from dungeon mobs is no better than killing mobs outside of dungeons. Most of your open world xp comes from the quest turn ins and has less to do overall with the mobs. They provide a small overall bonus to your xp while you work towards a completed quest, but they're still extremely inefficient for xp per hour.

The end reward has always been the biggest gains to a level. That hasn't changed since the beginning of the game.
but whats your justification on favoring just one side of how they want to run the dungeons? clearly all of the people who queued for it is running them for their own reasons so why should the other side be obligated? i dont think "some people need the exp" is enough because some dont and i could be like "not me, so you should do it my way" which is the same method of thinking
10/24/2018 11:21 AMPosted by Tehrrana
In Atal'azar, tanks go all the way around the two rhinos and their troll handlers in the center only fighting the groups on the side paths. Inevitably, a fear bomb sends a party member in to the rhino


They are triceratops.

edit: Correction a ceratopsid of some sort.
10/26/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Wuhjikô
10/26/2018 12:05 PMPosted by Hirai
And besides, nobody has provided any reason why people should be skipping things in XP dungeons, lol. You're just limiting yourself and getting less XP/time by doing so.


That is a self limitation set by yourself.

If you attempt to full clear each and every dungeon while leveling, the other person tanking another one will level twice as fast as you, because they're rushing end rewards, which are far superior to adding 10-15 more minutes of trash killing onto your dungeon.

The xp gained from dungeon mobs is no better than killing mobs outside of dungeons. Most of your open world xp comes from the quest turn ins and has less to do overall with the mobs. They provide a small overall bonus to your xp while you work towards a completed quest, but they're still extremely inefficient for xp per hour.

The end reward has always been the biggest gains to a level. That hasn't changed since the beginning of the game.


It takes 10-12 seconds to kill one enemy that gives you 1,700xp.
It takes about 30 or so seconds to kill a pack of 5 mobs in a dungeon that give between 3-5k XP per.

uh, lol?

Which is more XP, 5,000 or 15,000?

I've leveled characters in dungeons before, usually only the first dungeon per day gives a huge payout at the end. The rest give much smaller payouts and your best XP is from killing junk with the bosses giving the most, then the regular mobs.

Now, for the record, I am NOT saying to hunt down every enemy in the dungeon, too much walking. I am saying, however, that skipping stuff in your way (oftentimes spending time to wait for patrols to move and trying to walk huge circles around the stuff) is absolutely silly.
It's the same thing in every instance.
In Atal'azar, tanks go all the way around the two rhinos and their troll handlers in the center only fighting the groups on the side paths. Inevitably, a fear bomb sends a party member in to the rhinos. Why not just fight them? "They hit hard," is the excuse. What a crock.

They DO hit hard. And does your group plan on interrupting the fear, or were you just planning on taking it? Hell even if you are feared, unless someone in standing way far back into the middle part, they won't get feared into the pack. Maybe you are just terrible?


In the Underrot, tanks try to avoid fighting as much as possible after defeating Cragmaw. Except for the group of skeletons in the tunnels which cannot be avoided. Two groups of two which are easily killed but tanks run around them to hit the boss.

Just about everything in Underrot is awful and I don't blame a tank for not trusting pugs to interrupt, stun, kill totems, ect.


There are pirate groups along the path to the first boss, Skycap'n Craig. But tanks will kill one or two groups along one side and avoid the rest running around plants and buildings. Despite that these are humanoid monsters that drop gold, cloth, and items, tanks won't attack them.

So your only reason for wanting to kill loads of extra trash... is to get more trash for your bags? Lol. This is literally the stupidest reasoning I have ever heard for wanting to kill trash.

I'd kick you too for wanting to make a simple dungeon run as miserable as possible.
10/26/2018 12:25 PMPosted by Hirai
I've leveled characters in dungeons before, usually only the first dungeon per day gives a huge payout at the end. The rest give much smaller payouts and your best XP is from killing junk with the bosses giving the most, then the regular mobs.


I've been leveling things for 14 years and I can promise you I'd level circles around you with a tank from start to finish.

I get that you're focused on the xp right then and there for that moment. But all those mob kill times adds up... no matter how little you deem it to be.

No dps will wanna spend extra time in dungeons while leveling when those extra minutes you spent killing meaningless trash could've been spent by them after the dungeon to kill just as many mobs and turn it in for quests with even bigger gains for time spent.

10/26/2018 12:25 PMPosted by Hirai
Now, for the record, I am NOT saying to hunt down every enemy in the dungeon, too much walking. I am saying, however, that skipping stuff in your way (oftentimes spending time to wait for patrols to move and trying to walk huge circles around the stuff) is absolutely silly.


It is silly, but that's usually a fault with a new or slower player. When leveling in a dungeon if the target is in your direct path from point A to B you run said target over.

Most of this thread though has been about doing extra and extremely avoidable stuff for the sake of trickle xp/loot.
See it from a tank's point of view as well;
People aren't interrupting, stunning, or using CC.

There's no point in having additional stress on the run when you can skip the packs.

Also the practicing M+ thing.

I haven't tanked in a while, but I would pull the hard to skip packs just because I didn't trust pugs, but I also don't trust them to do the packs properly. Aka: using basic abilities.
10/26/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Quee
There's no point in having additional stress on the run when you can skip the packs.


How do the kind of skips people are pulling off accomplish anything but stress?
10/26/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Xukon
10/26/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Quee
There's no point in having additional stress on the run when you can skip the packs.


How do the kind of skips people are pulling off accomplish anything but stress?
Does hugging the wall to walk past a pack of mobs, or keeping up with the group so you can scoot by pathers, stress you?

I don't know what you mean by "pulling off". Nothing that is done that the OP is whining about, or is even done in any of the current dungeons, is taxing in any amount or any different than what is done in leveling dungeons.
10/24/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Bogo
They're practicing the routes and runs for the M+ runs they will want to do. The addition of Mythic+ has meant that in order to run dungeons "the best way possible" you ONLY kill what is needed and you go as FAST as possible.

Compounded onto this is the fact there just seems to be a ton more trash in these dungeons and you've got a situation where most people want to play the dungeon the way the M+ players play it (super fast and skipping as much as you can get away with).

I also don't like skipping packs (including the dinos in the middle) unless it's some M+ run, and in those I assume we all know why we're doing the things we're doing (or not doing!).


Another reason why i hate m+, doing timewalking for the first time on a lvl 107, tank is walking a very fine line trying to skip as much as he can and spends the rest of the dungeon chewing me out because he had to fight an extra pack that i pulled after getting feared out of the 5 yd radius he gave us to fight a pack in.
10/26/2018 12:43 PMPosted by Yserith
10/24/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Bogo
They're practicing the routes and runs for the M+ runs they will want to do. The addition of Mythic+ has meant that in order to run dungeons "the best way possible" you ONLY kill what is needed and you go as FAST as possible.

Compounded onto this is the fact there just seems to be a ton more trash in these dungeons and you've got a situation where most people want to play the dungeon the way the M+ players play it (super fast and skipping as much as you can get away with).

I also don't like skipping packs (including the dinos in the middle) unless it's some M+ run, and in those I assume we all know why we're doing the things we're doing (or not doing!).


Another reason why i hate m+, doing timewalking for the first time on a lvl 107, tank is walking a very fine line trying to skip as much as he can and spends the rest of the dungeon chewing me out because he had to fight an extra pack that i pulled after getting feared out of the 5 yd radius he gave us to fight a pack in.

Then tell that tank "I was feared, jackass". One bad tank making bad decisions doesn't mean every tank taking routes to skip unnecessary mobs is bad.
Most of this thread though has been about doing extra and extremely avoidable stuff for the sake of trickle xp/loot.


I don't know, I saw the OP and a few others complaining about people skipping mobs that are right next to bosses, and that are right in the pathway, where they end up causing problems later.

But yeah, I don't want to run around endlessly rounding up every single mob, no. That's just ludicrous.

In fact it points to a bad game design if they make 75% of a dungeon skippable.... why do it then? Why not just make them more linear?
10/26/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Xukon
10/26/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Quee
There's no point in having additional stress on the run when you can skip the packs.


How do the kind of skips people are pulling off accomplish anything but stress?


Take freehold for example.

You pull the 3 packs in the front and move up the stairs (hopefully the pack patrolling is in a good spot) hug the right side on the deck and pull that single pack and run to the boss arena with it.

After you've killed them you grab that second pack on the edge of the arena and kill them too. Within 2 minutes you've cleared 5 packs and already have the boss coming in.

Now for the second boss.

You cross the bridge and pull that pack on the right and drag them around the house (only if the rat isn't directly patrolling). This week is the drinking game so after you clear that you simply wrap around a bit further and one of the foxes is there to talk to on the back side of the house.

I'll usually clear the rat that patrols to the second boss area because someone always tends to pull it but you can totally skip it this week because the fox chick doesn't dive back there like the other weeks.

Cross the plank behind the house and dive from the roof to the second boss arena. Clear the 2 sets of mobs and even the bar if you wish. You now have an entire arena to play in and you avoided 2-3 extra packs before that with little to no effort.

Third boss.

If it's not a mythic+ setting or even if it is and the affixes aren't bad... you can simply plow down the middle. The skip for this area involves killing that single patrol on the left side and wrapping around under the deck. You then grab the static pack sitting next to the shark arena (hopefully the patrol isn't in the way) then start the dialog while you kill that pack. Everyone stands around the bone pile and spam clicks so when the pig drops it's over before it starts.

Kill the 2 boss mobs and take the same path back. Then you hug the edge of the second boss arena and take that stairway up next to the bridge. Then you mount up and jump at an angle to avoid everything below and land safely past the front of the bridge.

Kill the three packs on the other side and wrap around that incline and avoid the final pack in front of harlen. Kill him off to the left side and don't put yourself near the opening on the ledge as the railing has a invisible wall but that opening has nothing to stop you from falling.

You can shave off an easy 5 minutes or more of trash clearing with these simple skips and be in your next dungeon even quicker. If the timing is off for patrols and it isn't a mythic+ you can simply kill them if they're in your way.

But if you wanna manage your time better skips like these will help you get more gaming in. If you've got all the time in the world then do it however you want if you're the tank.

Chances are though people will protest.
10/26/2018 12:25 PMPosted by Hirai
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That is a self limitation set by yourself.

If you attempt to full clear each and every dungeon while leveling, the other person tanking another one will level twice as fast as you, because they're rushing end rewards, which are far superior to adding 10-15 more minutes of trash killing onto your dungeon.

The xp gained from dungeon mobs is no better than killing mobs outside of dungeons. Most of your open world xp comes from the quest turn ins and has less to do overall with the mobs. They provide a small overall bonus to your xp while you work towards a completed quest, but they're still extremely inefficient for xp per hour.

The end reward has always been the biggest gains to a level. That hasn't changed since the beginning of the game.


It takes 10-12 seconds to kill one enemy that gives you 1,700xp.
It takes about 30 or so seconds to kill a pack of 5 mobs in a dungeon that give between 3-5k XP per.

uh, lol?

Which is more XP, 5,000 or 15,000?

I've leveled characters in dungeons before, usually only the first dungeon per day gives a huge payout at the end. The rest give much smaller payouts and your best XP is from killing junk with the bosses giving the most, then the regular mobs.

Now, for the record, I am NOT saying to hunt down every enemy in the dungeon, too much walking. I am saying, however, that skipping stuff in your way (oftentimes spending time to wait for patrols to move and trying to walk huge circles around the stuff) is absolutely silly.


You are delusional.

I just ran scholomance on my level 50 alt, his EXP bar is 182,480.
Boss kills gave 1k exp
trash mobs gave 100-200 exp
quests, 3 of them, gave 20k-30k
dungeon completion gave 50k.

Now, let's assume 30k exp from quests.
For the same amount of exp from trash mobs, I would need to kill about 150 mobs.
Let's assume 150 mobs, 10 seconds per mob.
That is 25 minutes.

Which of these will give you more exp at the end of the dungeon?
10/25/2018 05:37 PMPosted by Annastasi
10/25/2018 03:08 PMPosted by Grecko
Because they want to skin? Really?

They wouldn't be the toxic player, the one !@#$%ing and moaning about that lost 10s would be.


no. because the skinner is contributing far less to killing the trash than everyone else.

trash pack dies. everyone runs up to kill the next pack, skinner stays behind.
by the time the skinner catches up, the next pack is either dead or almost dead. everyone goes on... skinner stays behind. rinse, repeat.

it's obnoxious, the group is essentially down a dps (or worse a healer) for trash. I'd VTK them too.

OR..., Skinner is given 5 to 10 freaking seconds to skin, then the group moves on.
10/26/2018 01:29 AMPosted by Tûrbo
You're playing a video game with other people with different values. If you don't like the group you're in, leave and make your own. Not everyone plays this game to hold your hand while you move along at a snails pace.

Why is the onus on the puller to leave and form their own group, and not on the skipper?

Using your logic/philosophy, if you like to go recklessly fast, form your own group.
10/26/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Vacamuerta
you can make your own groups in the customizable group finder

So can you.
10/26/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Hohee
10/24/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Bogo
They're practicing the routes and runs for the M+ runs they will want to do. The addition of Mythic+ has meant that in order to run dungeons "the best way possible" you ONLY kill what is needed and you go as FAST as possible.

Compounded onto this is the fact there just seems to be a ton more trash in these dungeons and you've got a situation where most people want to play the dungeon the way the M+ players play it (super fast and skipping as much as you can get away with).

I also don't like skipping packs (including the dinos in the middle) unless it's some M+ run, and in those I assume we all know why we're doing the things we're doing (or not doing!).


Pretty much this.
People want the quickest time for M+'s.
So they'll do dry runs. Gotta practice somehow.
People don't like having depleted keys because of screwups. No margin for error.
One death is too many.

So, we need a "Proving Grounds" for Mythic dungeons then?

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