Class Identity, Strengths & Weakness

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
At the base, I like this approach. A very glaring problem is you look at Demon Hunters or Rogues, and all the competing options don't bring anything to the table (mostly) that those classes can't. Two main points I'd like to bring up here.

1. There needs to be more strengths among the different classes. Utility could be an excellent option to shore up. Not only are utility abilities exciting, but they can enhance toolkits without directly having an impact on rotations or the balance of damage

2. Movement restriction is a garbage weakness. This applies to Death Knights, Paladins, and most ranged classes. I think one of the biggest reasons MoP is remembered so fondly is because all classes had reasonable movement abilities/options. Whether that was direct movement abilities, or abilities that could be used while moving. It's fine for some classes to move better than others, but that should only be used as a strengthening aspect. I think using it to go the other way and making a class heavily movement restricted feels pretty bad.

**I think it also limits how different classes can engage with modern mechanics. Dances, quick response, constant mechanics, whatever. I think reacting and engaging with mechanics is fun, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T REMOVE YOUR ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE
So what are the weaknesses of dh, mage, rogue,priest and dk, clearly they dont have none, MDIs show that, no groups compositions out of those classes.
The weakness of priest is shadow right now.
DH/Rogue in particular probably need to be looked at closer in being given a weakness. I don't really see mage as much of a problem. The biggest reason you always saw mages is because their slows/kiting is OP. And Blizzard is nerfing a ton of their snare capability in 8.1

Blood DK - Is being nerfed in 8.1, but also low mobility. Does this really matter a lot as a tank? Not really, but without a Frost Mage to constantly slow everything massively maybe it will make kiting more difficult as a blood dk? Blood DK is ridiculous in M+, but I wouldn't want to see things removed from them. They are just a good tank in raids, but hardly OP. This is where I mention utility, they need to give other tanks some cool abilities (and just make some bad tanks stronger in general) to compete with the Blood DK toolkit.

Priest - They are also getting nerfed in 8.1 I think? I don't know a lot about healers though, I don't really play them.
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
DH/Rogue in particular probably need to be looked at closer in being given a weakness. I don't really see mage as much of a problem. The biggest reason you always saw mages is because their slows/kiting is OP. And Blizzard is nerfing a ton of their snare capability in 8.1


I do not think the solution to class issues should be nerfing classes that feel good and fun. We should buff the ones that do not. We want to get to a place that everyone feels fun with their class regardless of pure damage output.
11/05/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Gnovia
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
DH/Rogue in particular probably need to be looked at closer in being given a weakness. I don't really see mage as much of a problem. The biggest reason you always saw mages is because their slows/kiting is OP. And Blizzard is nerfing a ton of their snare capability in 8.1


I do not think the solution to class issues should be nerfing classes that feel good and fun. We should buff the ones that do not. We want to get to a place that everyone feels fun with their class regardless of pure damage output.


So, tell me how do we have fun, when you have gear, you know that you are a good player and yet you do crappy damage on every situation? How is that fun? Is it fun to be replaced by a terrible DH? Is it fun to have the hardest time getting invited to a raid, m+? Nope, it's not fun, not fun at all. There is no fun when your class underperforms, unless you play wow for the RP, that i bet its like 5% of the community.
Dps Classes with no mobility (such as mine) are not fairly compensated in other areas for the huge disadvantage it causes in mythic plus.
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
Priest - They are also getting nerfed in 8.1 I think? I don't really know a lot about healers though, I don't really play them.


Only thing they are currently changing is increasing mana costs for couple abilities and maybe tweeking some numbers. For example they are completely nerfing Holy Healing Bind (which everyone have been waiting since Legion introduced this talent) but in the other hand when you look at Rdruid changes. They just simply nerf Tranquility and buff Wild Growth as compensation.

Again these changes address non of the real class problems or what players would love to see.
I am definitely not OK with the current Enh Sham rotation (Feels Clunky, CGD is moronic etc) but I'd be okay with having my personal DPS lower if I could bring party buffs with my totems to make up for it.
what can i say about affliction for M+ runs, we simple dont do AoE, our helthstones and our gates arent enought to bring a warlock to boss fights and be carried the rest of the dungeon. Did i mention that we dont have a interrupt baseline?....or that we are pvp negated so far in beta for azeroth.
Or you could give dh and rogues some weakness? Ffs plate classes are getting hit like theyre wearing linen skirts. Rogues have idealized death knight/warrior dps and the full toolkit + defensives. Who came up with this?
11/05/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Kyarïna
11/05/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Gnovia
...

I do not think the solution to class issues should be nerfing classes that feel good and fun. We should buff the ones that do not. We want to get to a place that everyone feels fun with their class regardless of pure damage output.


So, tell me how do we have fun, when you have gear, you know that you are a good player and yet you do crappy damage on every situation? How is that fun? Is it fun to be replaced by a terrible DH? Is it fun to have the hardest time getting invited to a raid, m+? Nope, it's not fun, not fun at all. There is no fun when your class underperforms, unless you play wow for the RP, that i bet its like 5% of the community.
This. Unholy DK is my favourite class, but we get picked over constantly for every type of gameplay. Not worth the money.
11/05/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Gnovia
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
DH/Rogue in particular probably need to be looked at closer in being given a weakness. I don't really see mage as much of a problem. The biggest reason you always saw mages is because their slows/kiting is OP. And Blizzard is nerfing a ton of their snare capability in 8.1


I do not think the solution to class issues should be nerfing classes that feel good and fun. We should buff the ones that do not. We want to get to a place that everyone feels fun with their class regardless of pure damage output.


Then where are the damn buffs? Right now there is zero reason to be a ret Paladin in this game. Doesn’t feel very fun when demon hunters have all of your strengths and none of your weaknesses yet Blizzard is silent.
11/05/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Kyarïna
11/05/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Gnovia
...

I do not think the solution to class issues should be nerfing classes that feel good and fun. We should buff the ones that do not. We want to get to a place that everyone feels fun with their class regardless of pure damage output.


So, tell me how do we have fun, when you have gear, you know that you are a good player and yet you do crappy damage on every situation? How is that fun? Is it fun to be replaced by a terrible DH? Is it fun to have the hardest time getting invited to a raid, m+? Nope, it's not fun, not fun at all. There is no fun when your class underperforms, unless you play wow for the RP, that i bet its like 5% of the community.


What they are saying is that Rogue, dps DH and tank DK aren’t actually broken. They are the few classes that are actually finished in terms of design. It’s that all the other classes that are unfinished piles of dog !@#$.
11/06/2018 01:55 AMPosted by Glastian
What they are saying is that Rogue, dps DH and tank DK aren’t actually broken. They are the few classes that are actually finished in terms of design


What exactly is this design again?
11/05/2018 10:52 AMPosted by Ojoverde
So what are the weaknesses of dh, mage, rogue,priest and dk, clearly they dont have none, MDIs show that, no groups compositions out of those classes.

I agree for DH, Rogues, and BDK.

For Mage I'm not sure I think that with the nerfs to frost mage slows in the PTR they will be much more in-line with the rest.

For Priest, I agree Disc is in a good place for M+, however it has clear weaknesses and it's not even the most played spec at high keys, Druids, Monks, and Paladins also have good representation (Druid is even higher than Disc). Out of 4 teams in the MDI we saw 3 different healing specs, with more teams we would've very likely seen at least a few Holy Paladins too. Shaman and Holy Priest need some love for M+ ofc but 4/6 specs been viable is way better than before.

Priest weaknesses are mainly mobility and defensives (which are way worse than Shaman's btw for all of those saying Shaman has poor defenses). A Disc priest can play around the lack of defenses by sacrificing their tank CD and using Pain Suppression on himself, Holy can't. Another weakness of Disc is healing affixes like Grievous and Bursting where damage continues after the mobs have died, it's not impossible to play around but it's still a weakness. Compared to other healers Priest also doesn't offer a lot in terms of CC and Add control (it has some, but it's on the weaker side).
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
DH/Rogue in particular probably need to be looked at closer in being given a weakness.


This +1000. It pushes dps Paladin, Monk and Warrior out of a lot of comps.

11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
Blood DK - Is being nerfed in 8.1, but also low mobility. Does this really matter a lot as a tank?


When you put Battle Res and (AoE) Death Grip on a tank, the dps+migitation numbers would need to suck really hard for it not to out-class all other options.

11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Varrow
Priest - They are also getting nerfed in 8.1 I think? I don't know a lot about healers though, I don't really play them.


Disc is less of an issue because their output is a serious issue in some encounters and difficulty levels.
HA!!! talk about movements as a lock, try to cast gateway we get shadowlocked and that somehow means gateway and every spell you have is locked. They need to remove movement abilities or limit them to out of combat.
11/06/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Jaasiel
HA!!! talk about movements as a lock, try to cast gateway we get shadowlocked and that somehow means gateway and every spell you have is locked. They need to remove movement abilities or limit them to out of combat.

That doesn't work for melee DPS on the PvE front. The reason most melee have mobility increases is due to target swapping requirements in fights. Ranged doesn't need to move around for priority targets. Granted there is a ton of mechanic forced movement which is a problem for most ranged.

I'm all for giving mobility options for ranged DPS where it's needed.
11/06/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Riidatar
11/06/2018 01:55 AMPosted by Glastian
What they are saying is that Rogue, dps DH and tank DK aren’t actually broken. They are the few classes that are actually finished in terms of design


What exactly is this design again?


They can actually play in most forms of content without any detriment to themselves or others. They have the tools, utilities, and numbers necessary to provide a positive game experience for themselves and their allies.

Do the other specs provide any of this? No? Then the majority of specs are under designed piles of trash. Don’t nerf the few functioning specs. Trust me, having ALL the specs being unfun undertuned trash heaps is NOT the same as having all the specs provide an enjoyable experience. You aren’t making this game better by gutting classes harder. Or do you want WoW to become even more of a trash tier overpriced game?

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