Reminder: one guy does better than Blizzard at outlining how new face models should have looked

General Discussion
Art is subjective. In my experience anytime a fan "reimagines" something of any fandom it always has a following of people claiming its better than the actual art.

I personally believe a lot of it is psychological. People want the small independent artist to succeed. I mean, I do.

But really, all this guy did was make some edits on photoshop. He's still infinitely more talented than I am, but to claim Blizzard's art team are a bunch of untalented hacks because of a photoshop edit is a bit much.

Now should Blizzard hire this guy? I don't know. That really depends on a lot of things including his experience working with the programs Blizzard uses to design their game.
11/06/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Dartail
11/06/2018 12:04 AMPosted by Hellasha
No, he didn't


https://gyazo.com/3ae9177ba65e4fea0bed51d094e4c7a0


What about it? Is that suppose to be another edit from the same guy?
11/06/2018 12:29 AMPosted by Hellasha
What about it? Is that suppose to be another edit from the same guy?


......no, that's literally Blizzard's finished product. If you actually think that's acceptable, then I don't really know what to tell you. You've got an interesting taste in design, I guess.
11/06/2018 12:31 AMPosted by Dartail
11/06/2018 12:29 AMPosted by Hellasha
What about it? Is that suppose to be another edit from the same guy?


......no, that's literally Blizzard's finished product. If you actually think that's acceptable, then I don't really know what to tell you. You've got an interesting taste in design, I guess.


And because his taste doesn't match yours he's automatically wrong... is that about the gist of it?
I’ve still yet to see a 3d model. People always question the quality of work until asked to present something better, then they post threads like this with minor league photoshopping 2d pictures
11/06/2018 12:50 AMPosted by Raptorion
And because his taste doesn't match yours he's automatically wrong... is that about the gist of it?


Look at the gyazo and tell me what you think I believe.

11/06/2018 01:03 AMPosted by Treefu
I’ve still yet to see a 3d model. People always question the quality of work until asked to present something better, then they post threads like this with minor league photoshopping 2d pictures


You think blizzard couldn't have made something like the edit? You're selling them pretty low, you know.
I mean, there are some good faces. But the update largely failed to hold true to the, "spirit" of the old faces - and there are so many same faces. Female night elves are one of the worst candidates, they all look so much the same and the entire facial structure changed with the update. They have wide, bulky faces now - before they were almost universally thin and elf-like.

It's so bad that I stopped playing one.
11/05/2018 11:28 PMPosted by Dartail
11/05/2018 11:24 PMPosted by Dalles
So he changed her eyeshadow and did her hair.Big deal.


You're clearly blind if you can't see the fact that he also:

Lowered eyebrows
Decreased actual eyeball size
Rounded the cheeks out
Widened the nose while bringing it back a bit

In addition to adding eyeshadow and increasing the volume of her hair.

11/05/2018 11:26 PMPosted by Seije
photoshopping a still image =/= "doing better at new models."

show me an actual 3d rendering and i'll be impressed.


I understand that you think it would be extremely difficult for Blizzard to create a passable model, seeing as how they're a small indie company and all. We should really give them the benefit of the doubt.

/s


Based on what I just read, I am almost certain you don't know anything about 3D character modeling.

That isn't to say the Photoshop work wasn't able to preserve the essence of the original model. I'd say that the Photoshop work was able to do just that. But it is not a new character model, it is a 2D still.

Now I could go on and speculate that the art department took creative license and made some departures for the sake of creating a new aesthetic, perhaps to be more expressive with how they animate. But that's another topic entirely.

But yeah, it isn't a character model. Not throwing any shade at you, that's just a fact.
11/06/2018 01:21 AMPosted by Sinney
Now I could go on and speculate that the art department took creative license and made some departures for the sake of creating a new aesthetic, perhaps to be more expressive with how they animate. But that's another topic entirely.

This is almost surely what they did. The horrendous lip synching that looks straight out of Warcraft 3 in certain cinematics, and the ridiculous facial expressions are probably the intention.

Which is silly since this wasn't really the case with the old models. It feels like comparing PUBG to Fortnite - one side is more realistic looking (to an extent), the other is over the top and rather... well, too cartoony.
11/06/2018 01:16 AMPosted by Espur
I mean, there are some good faces. But the update largely failed to hold true to the, "spirit" of the old faces - and there are so many same faces. Female night elves are one of the worst candidates, they all look so much the same and the entire facial structure changed with the update. They have wide, bulky faces now - before they were almost universally thin and elf-like.

It's so bad that I stopped playing one.


I agree and completely understand what you're talking about. For instance in the unitframes, you can rarely even tell certain faces apart. The differences were more pronounced before and you could really see what each player wanted to go for.

As for some of them being good, I do agree. Dwarf looks great for instance - but human female is primarily what this thread is about.
Why did you feel that we needed to be 'reminded' about this several years after these models were updated?
11/06/2018 01:22 AMPosted by Dartail
I agree and completely understand what you're talking about. For instance in the unitframes, you can rarely even tell certain faces apart. The differences were more pronounced before and you could really see what each player wanted to go for.

As for some of them being good, I do agree. Dwarf looks great for instance - but human female is primarily what this thread is about.

I'll also submit female night elf to that - especially since they didn't have eyelashes until mid-expansion, if not the next one.

11/06/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Carhagen
Why did you feel that we needed to be 'reminded' about this several years after these models were updated?

Blizzard still hasn't fixed the glaring issues with the new models.
11/06/2018 01:22 AMPosted by Espur

This is almost surely what they did. The horrendous lip synching that looks straight out of Warcraft 3 in certain cinematics, and the ridiculous facial expressions are probably the intention.

Which is silly since this wasn't really the case with the old models. It feels like comparing PUBG to Fortnite - one side is more realistic looking (to an extent), the other is over the top and rather... well, too cartoony.


Warcraft has always been excessively cartoony. Even with the old models, they had gigantic crab hands and boat feet.

Not to rain on classic but I'd hardly say the old models were better animated.

11/06/2018 01:25 AMPosted by Espur

Blizzard still hasn't fixed the glaring issues with the new models.


I actually agree here. For undead males, their hair isn't actually attached to their scalp.
11/06/2018 01:21 AMPosted by Sinney
Based on what I just read, I am almost certain you don't know anything about 3D character modeling.

That isn't to say the Photoshop work wasn't able to preserve the essence of the original model. I'd say that the Photoshop work was able to do just that. But it is not a new character model, it is a 2D still.

Now I could go on and speculate that the art department took creative license and made some departures for the sake of creating a new aesthetic, perhaps to be more expressive with how they animate. But that's another topic entirely.

But yeah, it isn't a character model. Not throwing any shade at you, that's just a fact.


I never said it was a 3 rendered model, so most of this is completely irrelevant. The point is that the edit holds the essence of the old face model while still having an updated look.

Any of you people who keep trying to pull this "it's not an actual 3d model it's just photoshop!" are just nitpicking because you literally cannot argue anything else. You're just trying to play semantics - you all know exactly what I mean when I say "he edited the facial model" in regards to his photoshopped image.
Warcraft has always been excessively cartoony. Even with the old models, they had gigantic crab hands and boat feet.

Not to rain on classic but I'd hardly say the old models were better animated.

They weren't, their mouths just didn't stretch ridiculously and they didn't have bug eyes.
11/06/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Carhagen
Why did you feel that we needed to be 'reminded' about this several years after these models were updated?


What a stupid comment
11/05/2018 11:19 PMPosted by Dartail
in photoshop


3D models are an entirely different beast.

11/06/2018 01:28 AMPosted by Dartail
Any of you people who keep trying to pull this "it's not an actual 3d model it's just photoshop!" are just nitpicking because you literally cannot argue anything else.


This is like saying you know how to assemble a car engine just because you know how to edit a photograph of a car. It's not even the same process. The artist you are referencing doesn't have to worry about things like polygon density or texture resolution. You have no idea what you're talking about.
11/06/2018 01:49 AMPosted by Necrodiemos
This is like saying you know how to assemble a car engine just because you know how to edit a photograph of a car. It's not even the same process.

Ted: "It's an entirely different kind of art altogether!"
All, together: "It's an entirely different kind of art!"
3D models are an entirely different beast.

True, but completely irrelevant. Would you like to point out where I specified they were the same thing?
11/06/2018 01:49 AMPosted by Necrodiemos
This is like saying you know how to assemble a car engine just because you know how to edit a photograph of a car. It's not even the same process. The artist you are referencing doesn't have to worry about things like polygon density or texture resolution. You have no idea what you're talking about.


First of all, that's a horrible analogy and you should be ashamed for even posting it. This is more akin to someone designing a car, and then someone else drawing up a redesign of the chassis and presenting the changes. Yes, the actual construction of the vehicle is a different process than drawn changes. Stop bringing up nonsense. You don't know half as much as you think you do, and your attempt at looking smart is only devaluing you even further.

Question - do you believe that Blizzard is incapable of rendering the proposed edit?
Incapable? No. Whether it's worth the investment is another issue.

As a person who actually does 3D model work, I can tell you that access to Photoshop means next to nothing when it comes to execution.

Your own analogy shows how little you understand about what goes under the hood of a car, if you think a mere chassis redesign can account for the entirety of the engine.

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