Why do you prefer Classic over Retail?

Classic Discussion
11/13/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Banja
11/13/2018 07:58 AMPosted by Zenshigen
I dont, im just here for the drama and fallout, also its gonna be fun rolling thru naxx when it comes out.


Good luck with that, Naxx was quite the gear check when it came out in Vanilla.


I think what he means is that he will solo the LK Naxx on the current game the day Classic launches. I think?
The real challenge of Classic is going to be finding 40 people to field in progression raids who aren't either.

A> Vanilla players whose skills have not aged well.
or
B> Retail players who never had to develop those skills in the first place

Either way, I expect there to be a lot of friction between an old guard and a new guard, both of which think they're the old guard.
I dont. I just want to play Classic. Why cant we just want to play both?

:P
The talent system is significantly better in my opinion.

People say it might as well not be there because of cookie cutter specs.... but in my opinion that is not what a rpg is about.... I'm not a min-maxer. I like making different selections based on either what I feel like or what I think fits my character.

We don't have that kind of customization anymore.

The leveling experience, to me, WAS the game.... and the "endgame" was extra bonus your max character could do. Now, the endgame is the game, and the only value of everything you do up unto that point is to simply get to the endgame as fast as possible. You of course had this is vanilla too.... but my point is, there was much more focus on ALL aspects of the game. The profession system was relevant the whole time while leveling up, the dungeons, the time, the pvp, it was a journey of slowly building your character up and making small semi-permanent choices to customize them.

It felt less railroaded. Which makes you feel more a part of world, instead of just on a crappy interactive cinematic.

Significantly more RPG elements. Almost every point up until now echo's this as well, but also individual characters and their classes and a lot more rpg elements... and the world also felt more dangerous/punishing. Eating food, bullets, bag space, no mount, 1 hr mail, world spanning quests, debuffs, feed pets/happiness, class quests, etc. etc.
11/13/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Nufan
The real challenge of Classic is going to be finding 40 people to field in progression raids who aren't either.

A> Vanilla players whose skills have not aged well.
or
B> Retail players who never had to develop those skills in the first place

Either way, I expect there to be a lot of friction between an old guard and a new guard, both of which think they're the old guard.


There is very little level of skill to display when your rotation is one button spamming your one efficient spell. You are right about the hardest part being collecting 40 people, roster its always a challenge even with flex raiding.
Slower pace. Leveling matters. Even reaching 40 and getting a mount feels epic and far more rewarding than anything in modern WoW.
Classic and up to WotLK(ruined by dungeon finder in WotLK) was the best time to play WoW.

You didn't have any of this CRZ sharding crap, and you had real server communities, i knew people from my realm. That died with LFG dungeon finder a bit tho.

I hate being this hero and rather be the adventurer, every time i hear hero, champion it makes me roll my eyes. MMORPGs you are the adventurer and not a damn hero.
Everyone is a hero, everyone gets a participation award! /s

Time gate upon time gate + extra rng on top of AP grinds and meaningless content. Get a piece of AP gear you need to level your neck more to unlock it fully = more time gate grind. Allied races are another big turn off with the rep needed to play them, like when in the history of WoW did you need rep to play a race? wth...

Warfronts could be good, but as they stand now they are just a wood and ore gathering simulator.

Island Expeditions are a pointless grind, aka MoP scenarios ver 2.0, and it's just as bad as the ones from MoP which i hated.

Classic never had any of the above, and it's why i don't play retail now. But if sharding goes into Classic i will never play another Blizzard title again in my life, since retail is no where near what a mmorpg is meant to be and never will be.

Getting gear means something and not just handed out.

Classes having real roles, needing CC in dungeons, needing to communicate with other people from your server.

I could keep going on and on, but i have better things to do with my time then to try and fixed a game that i don't get paid to fix.
For me it's all about the grind. I want a game where time invested = character power. Live wow is not that game anymore.
Vanilla let me play on my terms. When I logged in, I could do anything I chose - some quests, some gathering, some profession crafting, some grinding rep, some exploring, some dungeon running, some channel RP. I could even start a whole new alt and enjoy the differences in how the character played as I did any of the above. And I could do whatever it was I chose for an entire day if I had the free time.

Retail wants me to play on its terms. When I log in, I've got chores. I've got alts, so I've got those chores on more characters. If there are things I don't really care to do, the game has gimmicks to get me to "try it, you might like it" but they never accept that I didn't like it, so shut up and leave me alone. Worse, it's designed for people with short blips of time, so an entire day doesn't feel relaxing so much as it quickly feels like a hamster wheel (lots of running, no progress).

* NOTE: I haven't played since a few months into Legion, Feb 2016. Nothing I've seen about BfA looks like an improvement, but I don't have (and won't have) any experience there to speak knowingly.
It would be easier to ask me what is there I enjoy in retail that I do not in classic.

Which woul;d be flying, transmog and the newer models as well as my Spectral Tiger mount.

All of which I do not want to be in classic.. . . .

Okay I want my Spectral Tiger Mount in classic but I'm not asking for it!
11/13/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Kronok
Haven't really enjoyed anything since SWG and Classic - hence enjoyment is why.


Same here. I miss early SWG "a lot"...
Vanilla created a world then let the players do whatever they wanted within it. Retail created an "experience" then built a setting around it that actively discourages players from stepping off the tracks.
Early mmos felt like online worlds, an escape from reality, and most of the time it felt like what you did mattered. The current retail game is an action theme park. It does everything for you, tells you where to go, what to do, and worst of all, it treats you like a hero. Along the way it keeps handing you rewards for no apparent reason. I've lost track of all of all the reward systems, its ridiculous. Primarily, I find it flat out boring. One of the best things about games like classic and SWG for example, is you were just "some random character" out in the world.
In short: Vanilla WoW is an MMORPG, whereas Retail WoW is a lobby-based action-adventure game.

Vanilla WoW had almost no hand-holding; it was basically an RPG sandbox to be played as you wished.

Retail WoW tends to have one dominating story narrative told through heavy phasing and cutscenes. Vanilla was the exact opposite: you're dropped in the center of a mysterious, dangerous world, and are left to learn about it by reading books, quest flavor text, npc dialogue, etc. The Vanilla story was very nonlinear (like the quest flow), and something you acquired through immersion.

Less is more: in Vanilla you're just a normal person on an adventure. In Retail WoW you're basically a marvel superhero at this point.

The factions made sense. Horde was the actual underdog, and Orcs were these pastoral/tribal themed people, rather than being this contrived industrial super-power.

In Vanilla, the Alliance was not dominated by Human Mary Sues. In Vanilla, the human race is basically in regression. Their strongholds in the north have been destroyed, and the kingdoms around Stormwind are breaking apart because of corruption and decay.

Crafting professions were worth something and had actual depth. Professions in general had massive interdependence.

Leveling, and leveling zones, are an integral part of the game. Lower level zones tend to stay relevant for gameplay much longer.

The base difficulty of questing in Vanilla is drastically higher than retail, and completing quests and earning gear feels more of an accomplishment.

Could list things for days...
This is pretty simple for me. It's a better game ( From concept to game play )
11/13/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Eilethalua
Vanilla let me play on my terms. When I logged in, I could do anything I chose - some quests, some gathering, some profession crafting, some grinding rep, some exploring, some dungeon running, some channel RP. I could even start a whole new alt and enjoy the differences in how the character played as I did any of the above. And I could do whatever it was I chose for an entire day if I had the free time.

Retail wants me to play on its terms. When I log in, I've got chores. I've got alts, so I've got those chores on more characters. If there are things I don't really care to do, the game has gimmicks to get me to "try it, you might like it" but they never accept that I didn't like it, so shut up and leave me alone. Worse, it's designed for people with short blips of time, so an entire day doesn't feel relaxing so much as it quickly feels like a hamster wheel (lots of running, no progress).

* NOTE: I haven't played since a few months into Legion, Feb 2016. Nothing I've seen about BfA looks like an improvement, but I don't have (and won't have) any experience there to speak knowingly.


This. Let's say you're farming mithril/mats for Blacksmithing for the mithril order questlines and for weaponsmith quest. You can do this literally whenever you want, whatever pace you want, in whatever way you want. You can mine a little mithril every day, or you can do a mining spree on the weekend. You can grind up the mats yourself; you can fish in floating wreckage for mats; you can buy them on the AH; you can team up with your guildmates and share mats; etc.

The game gave you large milestones to work on, and you organically accomplished these things by just exploring and playing in the huge open world they created, in literally whatever way you wanted. You weren't locked into a phasing intro, or required to do the same daily or garrison gimmick day after day.
11/13/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Possessed
Early mmos felt like online worlds, an escape from reality, and most of the time it felt like what you did mattered. The current retail game is an action theme park. It does everything for you, tells you where to go, what to do, and worst of all, it treats you like a hero. Along the way it keeps handing you rewards for no apparent reason. I've lost track of all of all the reward systems, its ridiculous. Primarily, I find it flat out boring. One of the best things about games like classic and SWG for example, is you were just "some random character" out in the world.


I hate the fact I can get a Heroic Raid-quality piece of gear for basically doing nothing in the present game. You almost feel bad for it.

"I didn't earn this."

It cheapens the game.
The world is beautiful and dangerous.

The gameplay and class design isn't just RPG-like, it is RPG, something that is completely lost in almost every modern game, including WoW.

The community is vibrant and alive, pending sharding implementation.
rewards that feel rewarding, not hand me downs or participation trophies
11/13/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Natiari
The world.

That's it.

Cata destroyed the world I loved.

Everything else is just the icing on the cake. They could make it the Vanilla world, quests, dungeons, classes, talents and have everything else from BfA, and I would still be happy. (Except zone scaling. That can DIAF.)


So much this. Perhaps if Blizzard had developed Baine and rebuilt Camp T/the Barrens I'd have become reconciled to what happened, but they chose not to. I could never play BfA because my Horde characters--rolled into the Horde of Thrall and Cairne--would never participate in something like the burning of Teldrassil--and the RP of my Alliance characters is intertwined with that of my Horde characters.

My vanilla mains were this tauren shaman and a nelf druid (both leveled resto, because who's in a hurry?) and I loved their hybrid gameplay with an interesting ability for every situation, but the world is indeed the heart of the matter for me.

If I believed it possible to achieve the sort of community we had in vanilla, that would be up there, too, but I don't see it happening. Even with more server-centric mechanics and no LFD, I don't see us recapturing the wonder that many of us felt at being given this new playground. You only need to read the threads in this forum. I see a lot more folks talking plans to leverage current knowledge and opportunities to abuse mechanics like loot trading to their advantage (no criticism intended of the current-knowledge folks), than i do of folks planning community-building events. Perhaps it's just too early for that, but I'm skeptical.

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