(Community) Attempting to Bridge the Divide

Story Forum
I would like to preface this by saying that I do not intend to come off as pretentious or patronizing, this is just something I believe is important to having fruitful discussions here.

Something I believe it is important for everyone to keep in mind is that the fans of the opposite faction are not your enemy. Too often everyone seems to treat this story like it must be a competitive sports games; routing for their team to win, the other team to lose.

It is possible for their to be a story that is positive for all of us, and that is what I believe we should be advocating for. By focusing on, and taking our aggression out on the faction, we are only obfuscating genuine attempts at criticism and discourse.

In my opinion, we should attempt to be as objective and fair minded as we can, address our complaints solely at those who are responsible (Blizzard), and work to come up with ideas discussions that result in mutual benefit.

In the spirit of this, what I would like to suggest that we discuss suggestions for storylines and improvements, while also making a conscious effort to see if this idea is mutual beneficial to any degree. You can state story ideas that are controversial as well, just be sure to attempt to bridge the gap between the various fandoms.

Personally, I think that Blizzard should spend time in an upcoming expansion setting up a new, nice home for both the forsaken and the night elves. Perhaps these new locations could serve as expansion hubs in the future.

Another idea I believe would be mutually beneficial is for more groups to be shown within the factions during the story. There tends to always be a spotlight group currently, with everyone else becoming background characters, and I believe it may be beneficial to change that.
I novel thread. I approve!

11/14/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Verlius
Personally, I think that Blizzard should spend time in an upcoming expansion setting up a new, nice home for both the forsaken and the night elves. Perhaps these new locations could serve as expansion hubs in the future.
I think it'd be neater for them to just take the time to restore their respective capitals as a symbol of recovering from the scars of war, and while they're at it give them both substantial graphical upgrades making use of more recent assets and architecture they've been designing for both races in expansions since vanilla.

In particular, a restored Darnassus that meshes both Night Elven architecture from Suramar with the look of the Val'sharah region, atop a Teldrassil made to actually resemble its artwork, would easily become my new favorite city in the game.
11/14/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Verlius
Personally, I think that Blizzard should spend time in an upcoming expansion setting up a new, nice home for both the forsaken and the night elves. Perhaps these new locations could serve as expansion hubs in the future.


Let them build up Quel'Danis style, just spread out over an expansion. Let the players build them up and contribute to them, or at least design the questlines so that we feel like that. Can you imagine how cool it would be to have two cities that grow with each patch?

I would also love to see an "exploration" themed expansion. Given each Alliance and Horde species a zone or subzone and let them trek out into the wilds and see what cool things are out there. Seems like that would be a good opportunity to give each species a chance to shine and focus on their themes and storyline.
My personal pie in the sky wish is the entire next expansion should be focused, as unsexy as it sounds, with rebuilding. An entire expansion dedicated to letting everyone recover, maybe get back to a Vanilla era kind of thing where we are solving problems in house for the factions, bring it down if you will.

For the Alliance: focus on the NEs and Draenei showing their wisdom and experience in building new communities and building new settlements.

For the Horde: maybe something that finally changes the governmental structure of the horde and also gives a way for the various groups within the Horde a way to get back to that Family aspect Vol’jin talked about.
At the end of the day, we're just some randoms talking about the story of a video game. People get way too worked up.

Next xpac should, I think, be an overall QOL based one: bring back the pruned abilities that didn't deserve to be pruned, give races waaaay more customisation, add racial "tints" to classes (i.e. blueish spells for NE priests, red for tauren priests/pallys etc.), more races/allied races, player housing, etc. Everyone wins.
How many people actually do that though? I take Night Elves pretty seriously but I can still divorce fantasy from reality. Most of the people on this forum seem to as well. Sure the discussions get heated but people still remember it's not an Alliance or Horde member on the other side of the screen.
11/14/2018 11:00 PMPosted by Saiphas
My personal pie in the sky wish is the entire next expansion should be focused, as unsexy as it sounds, with rebuilding. An entire expansion dedicated to letting everyone recover, maybe get back to a Vanilla era kind of thing where we are solving problems in house for the factions, bring it down if you will.

Agreed. I have long wanted this kind of expansion and I think that, done right, it would not at all be (as you say) "unsexy". I for one would really enjoy it. Kind of a reverse Cataclysm, using phasing, that allows us to restore areas through our efforts.
11/14/2018 10:48 PMPosted by Kelrexia
Let them build up Quel'Danis style, just spread out over an expansion. Let the players build them up and contribute to them, or at least design the questlines so that we feel like that. Can you imagine how cool it would be to have two cities that grow with each patch?
That's what FF14 does. Revenant's Toll and Idyllshire were built up from nothing and a few ruined buildings respectively to the point of being a fortress and a thriving town.

Players have a more active role in restoring Stormblood's equivalent, the Doman Enclave, requiring you to donate goods and progression being phased for each person.
11/14/2018 11:37 PMPosted by Galenar
How many people actually do that though? I take Night Elves pretty seriously but I can still divorce fantasy from reality. Most of the people on this forum seem to as well. Sure the discussions get heated but people still remember it's not an Alliance or Horde member on the other side of the screen.


I don't mean to imply that you don't see those you are arguing with as people, so I apologize if it seemed that way. I am moreso referring to the tribalistic team-based views people start to develop.

An example of this would be people wanting the hordes story to be them being punished by the alliance. While this would be cathartic for alliance players, it would be very negative for horde ones. Another example, for the sake of parity, would be those advocating Sylvanas succeed and wholesale win against the alliance, cursing them. This may be fun for horde players, but very negative to alliance ones.

We, and Blizzard for the record, should be striving towards a mutually positive story, not one that comes at the explicit detriment of others. I hope that better explains my point, I've been having sleeping troubles while writing this OP and this response so I apologize if I am not expressing myself adequately.
11/15/2018 12:36 AMPosted by Verlius
An example of this would be people wanting the hordes story to be them being punished by the alliance. While this would be cathartic for alliance players, it would be very negative for horde ones. Another example, for the sake of parity, would be those advocating Sylvanas succeed and wholesale win against the alliance, cursing them. This may be fun for horde players, but very negative to alliance ones.


Narratively they have done something above and beyond conventional warfare that needs to be answered for though. I'm not saying the Horde need to be slaughtered but they were complicit in the worst war crime wow has had so far. That's not something can just be ignored for the sake of faction parity.

11/15/2018 12:36 AMPosted by Verlius
I don't mean to imply that you don't see those you are arguing with as people, so I apologize if it seemed that way. I am moreso referring to the tribalistic team-based views people start to develop.


No offense taken. As I said above, I don't necessarily hate the Horde, they have people just trying to live like anyone else in the Alliance. But we can't ignore what they've done. That's not tribalism, it's just a fact.
I agree with every one who says the next expansion should be about rebuilding on both sides. Redo the lands. Rebuild Darnassus and Undercity with the new graphics.
Galenar
Narratively they have done something above and beyond conventional warfare that needs to be answered for though. I'm not saying the Horde need to be slaughtered but they were complicit in the worst war crime wow has had so far. That's not something can just be ignored for the sake of faction parity.

11/14/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Verlius
I would like to suggest that we discuss suggestions for storylines and improvements, while also making a conscious effort to see if this idea is mutual beneficial to any degree. You can state story ideas that are controversial as well, just be sure to attempt to bridge the gap between the various fandoms.

So: You are saying there can be no enjoyable storyline for the Alliance players that does not include punishment for the Horde. In the spirit of this thread, how do you suggest making that enjoyable for Horde players?

If your attitude is "I don't care about Horde players as long as I see their faction get punished," that ... doesn't really belong in this thread.
11/15/2018 05:56 AMPosted by Pellex
So: You are saying there can be no enjoyable storyline for the Alliance players that does not include punishment for the Horde.


what do you suggest then to have a storyline enjoyable for both sides?
it is even possible after teldrassil?
because what nelfs players actually want is revenge and victory, can they have that without punishing horde players? i doubt it.

how long we have been discussing the same?
because i am not sure what horde players wants from this war, murdering alliance? killing our leaders?
or being the heros?
or a gray conflict? because those 2 ships sailed since warbringers sylvanas, there is not going back. is already too late. our best hope to have an enjoyable storyline for both is that the faction conflict ends, and even if it ends they still need to address the teldrassil thing.
we should direct our anger towards writers? because the best form of protest is unsubbing.
Speaking as if it actually were up to the community, there can be no satisfying end for both sides as long as Sylvanas lives. Period.

I would wager that if Horde fans finally just let go of of their waifu and allowed her to be offed and never come back, that Alliance fans would be open to pretty much anything the Horde would want. Siege of Stormwind? Sure. Death of one of our leaders or destruction of yet another one of our cities? Cool.
I'm also in support of getting an expansion based on helping to build a settlement or city. A place were all races and cultures can live and thrive without persecution built from the ground up by a group of peoples who share the single dream of uniting with one another.

What we could do is have a system similar to the Warfronts where each faction gather materials used to help the construction effort. It could be made as an entire plotline as well. Maybe it could even be a reputation thing where once you gather enough materials and progress in the reputation enough, you unlock a quest that has you maybe go to recruit a neutral political figure to move into the town/city, or delve into a ruin to retrieve an artifact that would help out the town/city like the Arcandor for the Nightfallen. Something about watching a town or city grow through your own efforts is extremely satisfying. I would love an expansion like that. Maybe we can call the expansion the name of the city or town being built.
11/15/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Ivalesse
Speaking as if it actually were up to the community, there can be no satisfying end for both sides as long as Sylvanas lives. Period.

I would wager that if Horde fans finally just let go of of their waifu and allowed her to be offed and never come back, that Alliance fans would be open to pretty much anything the Horde would want. Siege of Stormwind? Sure. Death of one of our leaders or destruction of yet another one of our cities? Cool.


Most of us don't really want either of those things. I mean, we'd play them. We'd take a fleeting pride in having won something on our own merits, rather than through superweapons or assassination... but our enjoyment of the event would fade long before the concurrent ill will they generated blueside, and that's... I mean, that's why storylines focused entirely on the faction war are always crap.

We need to get away from this zero-sum thinking. We need to demilitarize a bit. Skirmishes and conflicts over resources- i.e. the battlegrounds- can and probably should still happen, but the official position of Orgrimmar and Stormwind should both be "!@#$'s %^-*ed. Lets turn the manpower and engineering buildup we committed to for war towards rebuilding."

I want storylines where they acknowledge that the PCs have fought and killed gods, and that that is not what is needed now. Quests that are about creative solutions, compromise, restoration. Quests that examine how our murderhobo lifestyle HAS to adapt to what the world needs.
It should feel a little uncomfortable. They should be hiring returning combat veterans as consultants, because this should feel like that awkward and often painful transition from a warzone back to civilian life. Our instincts as players should be wrong for some of these quests.

I agree with what several above have said: we need to bring the scope down. Clean house, rebuild.
11/14/2018 10:27 PMPosted by Rothiron
I novel thread. I approve!

11/14/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Verlius
Personally, I think that Blizzard should spend time in an upcoming expansion setting up a new, nice home for both the forsaken and the night elves. Perhaps these new locations could serve as expansion hubs in the future.
I think it'd be neater for them to just take the time to restore their respective capitals as a symbol of recovering from the scars of war, and while they're at it give them both substantial graphical upgrades making use of more recent assets and architecture they've been designing for both races in expansions since vanilla.

In particular, a restored Darnassus that meshes both Night Elven architecture from Suramar with the look of the Val'sharah region, atop a Teldrassil made to actually resemble its artwork, would easily become my new favorite city in the game.
... Great now you've gone and made me dream. Hope is a horrible thing to hold on to around Blizz. :(

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