Should locks be doing low dps in dungeos?

Warlock
Lots of lock I pug with end runs with 8-9k overall when they are like 375 ilvl. It's mainly affliction ones. Apparently they are useless on anything other than bosses?
10/26/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Wtfbrew
Lots of lock I pug with end runs with 8-9k overall when they are like 375 ilvl. It's mainly affliction ones. Apparently they are useless on anything other than bosses?


Define dungeons?

At 375 in say a heroic or very low key trash dies to fast for them to build up there dps.

Higher keys is where they shine and mythic raids.
Also depends on the group comp. If your group has high aoe damage then even on high keys (unless its really high, like 15) an aff lock wont be doing much on trash.

Aff is a bit weird in that the worse the group is dps wise, the better aff does.
You want affliction in your group for damage on bosses unless we're talking very high keys where it can do good dps on trash as well like the folks above said.

For the usual pug keys you're better off with destruction. No idea how demo is doing in M+.
What dungeons? Heroics? Low Mythic+? High Mythic+ (above 10)?

Affliction has some of the worst trash damage in the game right now (Even Spriest and Boomkin do far better) unless it's like a +12 or something where their dots can do a lot of damage on long lived mobs

Otherwise, both other specs are far better for AoE.

10/26/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Midnighter
For the usual pug keys you're better off with destruction. No idea how demo is doing in M+.


Terrible for Explosive week, but otherwise Demo is fantastic for Mythic+. Great AoE and boss damage, exceptions are high movement fights that similarly hamper Destruction like 2nd boss of Underrot
10/26/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Midnighter
You want affliction in your group for damage on bosses unless we're talking very high keys like the folks above said.

For the usual pug keys you're better off with destruction. No idea how demo is doing in M+.


Very good burst aoe, average sustained aoe, very good single target if you can stand like a turret and not move or switch targets.
I know affliction is pretty low on the AOE side of things. It's why I run destruction, even in single target dps spec, I can still aoe high numbers with Cataclysm, Havoc, and Rain of fire.
At least for now, Seed of Corruption spamming, specced in Sow the Seed, like in Legion isn't viable, even with the trait (grossly undertuned, I tried it in a Freehold teeming run), also Drain Soul, which gives it support is also undertuned. The development team doesn't want affliction to even be mid-tier in AoE, it's trash tier. This is a strange week since its tyranical, and affliction is useful for bosses, but at the same time you won't be helping your group much by Drain Life the orbs (or save Deathbolt?). Also, some bosses require burst AOE now (so you dont have that many orbs) and in my opinion, speccing affliction isn't viable.
Destruction, on the other hand, is catching up in boss damage and does really fine in AoE and if you save conflag for orbs (not the worst ideas, you know the motto: orbs is everyone's business or you wipe)
PS: Affliction is competititve in +9 on. Destruction, on the other hand, is godly for G'Huun spawns.
10/27/2018 01:27 PMPosted by Baalzebubb
At least for now, Seed of Corruption spamming, specced in Sow the Seed, like in Legion isn't viable, even with the trait (grossly undertuned, I tried it in a Freehold teeming run), also Drain Soul, which gives it support is also undertuned. The development team doesn't want affliction to even be mid-tier in AoE, it's trash tier. This is a strange week since its tyranical, and affliction is useful for bosses, but at the same time you won't be helping your group much by Drain Life the orbs (or save Deathbolt?). Also, some bosses require burst AOE now (so you dont have that many orbs) and in my opinion, speccing affliction isn't viable.
Destruction, on the other hand, is catching up in boss damage and does really fine in AoE and if you save conflag for orbs (not the worst ideas, you know the motto: orbs is everyone's business or you wipe)
PS: Affliction is competititve in +9 on. Destruction, on the other hand, is godly for G'Huun spawns.


On AoE dps being bad: Not true. Plenty of warlocks are competing in higher keys and doing awesome, yet below most mages/warriors/DHs on aoe. I will usually notice that any lock that says their aoe dps is trash is doing one of the three following things:

1 - Not using all of their Cooldowns as they become available. "Saving" things like Phantom Singularity, Haunt, Deathbolt, DS:M, Darkglare because "it's just trash why pop CDs"

2 - they run low keys. like, 2-9 keys. Generally speaking, even on tyra week, the higher keys will see you perform on trash about 80-90% as good as anyone else that's a known great aoe spec. goes back to point 1.

3 - Run completely odd and worthless builds/specs/talents/azerites. You NEED sudden onset. You NEED writhe in agony. You NEED DS:M, Phantom, Haunt. these are not questions or suggestions. Also noticed better results with more haste-oriented builds (20-25%+ haste) than master-heavy ones, but it may just be me and most likely changes back around in much higher keys. Knowing when you can get away with using a voidwalker on trash is huge, too. some pulls, you really don't need a dispel, purge or interrupt and should just pull out your good old purple boy (and if like me, you xmog matches it, then great!). his AOE effect is a big bonus on 3-4+ target smaller encounters. Just don't pull extra !@#$.

-------
The fact that you ask if saving deathbolt for orbs is a viable option shows me you are still new to the class/spec, which is fine. lots of higher end warlocks are doing 10-18 keys right now on twitch/youtube, check 'em out, you may learn a thing or two.
Affliction warlock has basically three AoE spells:
Vile Taint: GTAoE (Ground target AoE)
PS and Seed: STAoE (Afflicts ST, and targets at 360 radius around it)
You're not mistakingly considering Affliction's powerful Multi-target (DoTs that can be applied to several targets but only afflict the target) as AoE, are you?

In Legion affliction had powerful AoE with Seed, specially if specced, and Soul Flame (this one completely removed), so yes, affliction had powerful AoE on top of powerful multi-target damage.

So I sustain my point: affliction AoE is trash tier in BfA so far.
Stack sudden onset x2 and play WiA you will notice a big diff, it's harder to play than AC but you get what you put in
I have done a bunch of +5 through +7 this week. Had a handful of locks, 1 did great dps and we were about even (boss fights). The others were all awful, like was almost comparable to our disc healer damage. Idk what it is, cuz I know the class is good, maybe lazy or L2P issues. Who knows.

But they are correct above, in a low key they will be about useless on trash cuz no ramp up. Bosses they should just about always be competitive.
10/28/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Baalzebubb
Affliction warlock has basically three AoE spells:
Vile Taint: GTAoE (Ground target AoE)
PS and Seed: STAoE (Afflicts ST, and targets at 360 radius around it)
You're not mistakingly considering Affliction's powerful Multi-target (DoTs that can be applied to several targets but only afflict the target) as AoE, are you?

In Legion affliction had powerful AoE with Seed, specially if specced, and Soul Flame (this one completely removed), so yes, affliction had powerful AoE on top of powerful multi-target damage.

So I sustain my point: affliction AoE is trash tier in BfA so far.


So what you're saying is you completely disregard my post and focus on the dictionary definition of AoE instead of just ''trash damage in dungeons''.

Not gonna sit here and explain the whole game to you, it's a waste of time.

10/28/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Baalzebubb
So I sustain my point:


Your point is only meaningful to people who put in as little work/research into this game as you do. Instead of finding out what works and what doesn't and how to make the best of the situation, you just want to be able to blame your class/spec for how bad you are doing. It sucks to meet people like you, since you can never be accountable.
Right now, I only do low keys and stuff like LFR and heroics. With the exception of the flying eye, I use all my other CDs on trash, even my trinket (unless we're close to the boss fight... Then I save the trinket too).

Most of the time I'm not on the top for the trash mobs and AoE in general. What I exceed, though, is to spread some dots and then focus on the priority targets. I also try to bring overall utility with stuns and gates (and sometimes interrupt with the dog depending on the fight... most of the time I use the imp).

With this all said, when we get to boss fights, I'm on the top of the lists and I don't expect less. If someone other than a lock is competing with me on the leadership, I usually try to observe them well and then study their armory and IO. The exception for this rule is fights with too many adds like Zul, but even fights with two or three mobs I expect to finish on top.

I think between boss fights and overall utility I like where we are right now. For sure I'd love to have more tools to bring strong AoE dps to my groups, but you can't have everything and I'm happy with what we bring.
What a bunch of lies, affliction AoE sucks, you cant compete with people that just push 1 button and do 80k damage, in the other hand you push like 20 buttons and get 20k at the most. Affliction really need a buff even if blizzard want to keep us only multidoting for AoE, so stop saying that affliction is fine.
10/30/2018 12:35 AMPosted by Ojoverde
What a bunch of lies, affliction AoE sucks, you cant compete with people that just push 1 button and do 80k damage, in the other hand you push like 20 buttons and get 20k at the most. Affliction really need a buff even if blizzard want to keep us only multidoting for AoE, so stop saying that affliction is fine.


Yeah, you suck at your class because the class itself is trash. got it. Seeing you running around with Absolute corruption and creeping death and 700 mastery on your gear has nothing to do with it. Having grey parses in all of your mythic kills has nothing to do with it. you said it yourself, the class is too demanding for you (Pressing 20 buttons to get 20k at the most, your words). Maybe ask for help/advice next time, instead of bashing everyone claiming we are ''Lying'' about things being fine. what do you think we are even covering up? Undercover blizz agents trying to spread propaganda?

Holy !@#$ you ARE running absolute corruption AND creeping death on every single one of your heroic and mythic uldir kills. So 2 dots (let alone 3) really is too much for you, you can only keep track of one (yet still let it fall off multiple times a fight, somehow). Comon.
Ojoverde: Well, from my part... I’m not lying. Like I said, I just run low keys and people around these forums are quite more skilled than I am. With that said, I like having multiple different dots. Just spread your main dots and focus on a target before refreshing them. PS is quite strong if it’s not in CD, at least for my skill and item level.

@Reckoner: you have good points! If my friend above isn’t willing to learn and hear tips, please consider me interested. I’m always keeping an eye on the warlock’s single stop site and overall YouTube videos to improve my rotation. The affixes confuse me the most probably; I like having at least one of the “start with 4 stacks of agony” and one of the “overlap UA to get bonus haste”, and for my third I keep the one with the laser thing for the raids. Am I messing up too much?
10/30/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Dreygur
Ojoverde: Well, from my part... I’m not lying. Like I said, I just run low keys and people around these forums are quite more skilled than I am. With that said, I like having multiple different dots. Just spread your main dots and focus on a target before refreshing them. PS is quite strong if it’s not in CD, at least for my skill and item level.

@Reckoner: you have good points! If my friend above isn’t willing to learn and hear tips, please consider me interested. I’m always keeping an eye on the warlock’s single stop site and overall YouTube videos to improve my rotation. The affixes confuse me the most probably; I like having at least one of the “start with 4 stacks of agony” and one of the “overlap UA to get bonus haste”, and for my third I keep the one with the laser thing for the raids. Am I messing up too much?


Hey

Looking at your current gear setup (dunno how accurate it is) you are running wayyy too low haste for any pve content. I'd consider wearing ANYTHING with haste on it right now, even if its a huge ilvl drop for you, over running with 400 haste.

Creeping death is mostly irrelevant in pve content atm. give dark soul: misery a try and dont be scared to use it on trash unless its right before a boss.

I would suggest running a Onehand/offhand setup if you have anything available. they have decent 1handers/offhands for less than 50k each on most realm's AH that are 350++ item level, sometimes even with socket for that low. That would add a good 200-300 haste to what you are currently running, which you desperatly need.

Quick navigation over masterful navigation is a must in your case. same with enchanting rings for haste.

I would go through your logs, but you don't have any. if you need help setting it up, pretty sure you can find out how on youtube, it's not too tough.
10/26/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Wtfbrew
Lots of lock I pug with end runs with 8-9k overall when they are like 375 ilvl. It's mainly affliction ones. Apparently they are useless on anything other than bosses?


It really depends on the fight. As you probably know, aff locks are a ramp up dps class. The longer the fight, the better our DPS typically is. If you are in a group with a lot of high aoe damage/low Mythic dungeon and trash dies quickly, the ramp up never reaches its peak, meaning the dps will be low. With that said, I am only iLvl 351 atm, and on boss fights I can typically do anywhere from 10-11k sustained unless its heavy movement. I am not saying this is great, it is just what I typically average. My guess is if they have 375, they should be doing more, but depends on group makeup and mythic level/mob health etc.
Thanks Reckoner! I reenchanted my rings & weapon and will try Misery tonight. Yet, yesterday I got a 375 wep from the mythic cache and again is a two handed :/ it has no mastery or haste, but it was such an ilvl difference that I don’t think it’d be worth to try to equip wep/off with a 355 ilvl :/ I need to learn how to sim! Pawn just helps me with overall data but some items are more complex.

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