Why the complaints?

General Discussion
11/01/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Cyouskin
11/01/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Warpstone
i think they are a waste of time and the people you pug with are normally asshats.

*Player 5 joins the group"
Player5: "hello"
Player3: "hey"
Player5: "can you summon?"
*Summing Pending*
Player5: "thanks"

Then literally no one talks unless it's the tank saying something like, "going Dino, Priest, Troll, then Spider" (Atal'Dazar).

Here what happens when you wipe for whatever:
*group dies*
*no one talks, they just run back and pull again*

Here's what happens when you wipe on a boss and someone made a critical mistake:
*Player4 killed by Pursuit*
Player1: "You need to run away if you get targeted."
________________________

There's my experience in the past 50 or so Mythic+ runs I've done with all PUGs. To be as transparent as possible, I've only had 1 jerk in the gorup, and that was me leaving a Mythic0 because I had limited time and we wiped to the first boss in King's Rest 5 times. The leader of the group was dropping Gold Spit under the boss, despite telling him specifically to not do that for the past 15min.

"Good luck"
*leaves group*


Glad you had a good time and nice people. I have had 1 to many bad experiences, they are not fun at all to me and if i never go back that is fine with me.

But i am sure some friends from guild or my son will drag me kicking and screaming into one, and it will be just as bad as every other one i have ever ran
11/01/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Raicolette
Designer's choice shouldn't be a common norm that's just accepted when story development is locked behind it.

They wanted those dungeons to be Mythic-only (maybe not every developer, but that's what they ended up going with). It's as simple as that.

It's the same reason as "gating" the story behind raids. For example, just because you don't raid doesn't mean it's a bad idea. (LFR gets to see it much later than Normal+ raiders, and it's brought up every single tier.) Putting the final chapter of an arc in a Mythic-only dungeon makes it feel like you're going to an especially dangerous area.

"I pay money" really isn't a good argument, to be honest. Video games are unique as a form of entertainment. Even you're stuck on a boss, do you complain to the developer it's too difficult? I understand you want to experience the story, and I don't disagree they could have included Heroic, but it's playable content and it was made that way for both artistic and gameplay reasons.
11/01/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Warpstone
But i am sure some friends from guild or my son will drag me kicking and screaming into one, and it will be just as bad as every other one i have ever ran

You get out what you put in.

Premades are better, of course. PUGs aren't nearly as bad as your post seems to imply.
If Mythic 0 is SO easy, why can't we queue? If it's too hard for a queue, then don't hide story in it. Also, if it's too hard for a queue, stop saying that it is easy.

I did some Mythics in Legion, and found them boring zergfests. I have no intention of ever doing another one until I can solo them no matter what the incentive. For me, it's not the difficulty; it's that I don't find them fun, and I play this GAME to have fun.
11/01/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Latrans
If Mythic 0 is SO easy, why can't we queue? If it's too hard for a queue, then don't hide story in it. Also, if it's too hard for a queue, stop saying that it is easy.

I did some Mythics in Legion, and found them boring zergfests. I have no intention of ever doing another one until I can solo them no matter what the incentive. For me, it's not the difficulty; it's that I don't find them fun, and I play this GAME to have fun.

You can queue up in Group Finder. You can even form your own group.
11/01/2018 10:13 AMPosted by Cyouskin
It's the same reason as "gating" the story behind raids. For example, just because you don't raid doesn't mean it's a bad idea. (LFR gets to see it much later than Normal+ raiders, and it's brought up every single tier.) Putting the final chapter of an arc in a Mythic-only dungeon makes it feel like you're going to an especially dangerous area.
Story related stuff, shouldn't be Mythic only. In Raids, you get to see it eventually and you get a buff later down the line. There's no commitment and it's not like your lockout gets screwed unlike in Mythic Dungeons. I'm thinking from the perspective of folks who don't Normal+ raids or do difficult content in general.

11/01/2018 10:13 AMPosted by Cyouskin
"I pay money" really isn't a good argument, to be honest. Video games are unique as a form of entertainment. Even you're stuck on a boss, do you complain to the developer it's too difficult? I understand you want to experience the story, and I don't disagree they could have included Heroic, but it's playable content and it was made that way for both artistic and gameplay reasons.
I have to agree to disagree here. We're playing World of Warcraft one of the most casual games out there, that you can push as far as you want to. There's multiple options to play and experience content, except with the story being locked behind KR and SoB being Mythic only.

So, I'll agree to disagree. I personally think it was bad designing and planning just like a lot of this expansion so far.
Story related stuff, shouldn't be Mythic only. In Raids, you get to see it eventually and you get a buff later down the line.

You can easily achieve 350 ilvl in a matter of days. Mythic0 was completed in ilvl300 gear. And most players step into Mythic0 at ilvl325.

As you said, you can wait (outgear it). I don't see the difference. Blizzard can't force you to do content, but don't psyche yourself out. Wait til 450+ ilvl if you want, there really is nothing preventing you from knocking out KR or SoB right now. (except Rep gating)
I have found that literally no one anti mythic can produce a logical reason as to why. You don't want to do a mythic +10? Fine, that's why it's not in that.

People are more hung up on the name "mythic" rather than anything else. "Heroic" is fine, but the name "mythic" is too much? People are so hung up on the arbitrary name that they can't mentally get past that.

Finding a group in the group finder takes just as much time as sitting in a queue(if not, it's usually even faster for DPS) to find a group. Tanks get accepted immediately, healers get accepted pretty fast, and DPS may have to apply to a few groups. But I can sit in a 10-15 minute queue on my rogue, or apply to 5 groups instantly and get accepted to 2 of them probably..... Hmmmm.....

You can search the group finder while you sit there in Org like most of you probably spend your time doing. Or picking flowers. Or clearing legacy raids. It doesn't require much attention...
Lets see...maybe because I don't even want to be in that content, much less have to try to find a group of people to carry me through it???

Said this before, I have vision problems. I stay out of dungeons/raids because I have difficulty processing what I'm looking at. Let me repeat that...I stay OUT of content like that rather than be responsible for party wipes.

So, who among you is going to carry me through the dungeon? Because that's what its going to be, a carry. I made it through the dungeon in Legion by waiting until I outgeared it and talked my hubby into helping me with it. That isn't going to be possible for me here...the hubby didn't even buy BfA.

For crying out loud folks, I don't demand you do the stuff in game that I like to do, what gives you the right to demand that I do content I don't like/am not capable of doing? Yeah, yeah, I know, I do it or I don't progress. I get it. Which is why I only have 1 120 and a half a dozen alts at various levels from 110 up. Why bother?

I'm not lazy. I don't want to play a single player game. I'm quite happy being around people and helping when I can, and I do much of my helping by staying out of content where someone can die due to my vision issues. And I get SO freaking tired of people accusing me of being lazy...or whatever else you're accusing people who don't want to do that content of...because I complain.

And you know what? It doesn't matter. Even if I just hated dungeon/raid content, it shouldn't matter. Even if I didn't want to do that content? It shouldn't matter. It would be the same as Blizz saying, well you have to do PvP to get (fill in the blank) or pet battles, or crafting or whatever you don't like to do. Yes, Blizz has always had content locked in dungeons/raids, etc, but never as bad as they did in Legion and are doing in BfA.

TL:DR, there are different reasons for people not wanting to do mythic dungeons, PLEASE stop calling them lazy or (fill in the blank).
Are the people complaining actually trying to find a M0 group, or are they just assuming it's too difficult and refuse to try?

I'm pretty casual, really don't even play much current content right now. But I got in a M0 group no problem. Wasn't crazy difficult. The group finder is filled with them. I watched one of those 1 minute guides on YouTube and had a general idea on what to do. The group was nice enough, too.

Also I wouldn't consider M0 to be the hardest of the hard for dungeons, that's why it has higher levels. So I don't see an issue putting part of the story behind it. If anything I think Mythics provide a better experience than Heroics because your group is picked rather than totally random. Queued PUGs are the most toxic groups I've experienced.
Some people don't enjoy pet battles.
Some people don't enjoy fishing.
Some people don't enjoy grinding rep.
Some people don't enjoy dungeons.
11/01/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Raicolette
...

Then someone would probably complain that Heroic SoB and KR were too hard.

Not trying to be snarky. Its just the truth. Personally though, I'm not against having hurdles in the game. It is a game after all. There are hurdles out there that I'm unlikely to want to do ever. I accept it honestly.
(1)That would be a invalid statement as the Heroic dungeons are in the LFG and considered casual by many. (2)Further along that, Mythic is geared towards being the highest challenge there is.

Using that logic, that's the same reasoning that folks think the use of Windmills should be illegal. It just doesn't make sense.

1) So is Mythic 0 considered casual by many.
2) Mythic 0 isn't the highest challenge there is. Not even close. It was meant to be slightly challenging (like Wrath Heroic level...) at like 300 level gear. You can get 340-350 in days now, so the difficulty should be on the level of Normal dungeons at launch.
11/01/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Warpstone
the people you pug with are normally asshats.


I've pugged hundreds of dungeons/raids in this game and I've found the opposite to be the case. Normally a group is formed with the group finder, everyone gets to the dungeon and they clear it with most social interactions being "you need that piece?".

I can't even recall more than a few cases where a player was actually rude/annoying/disrespectful enough or terrible at the game that I could not clear non-queue content.

Starting your own group is also an option and you can use whatever filter you'd like to invite players. Often times you'll get a group going faster than a DPS queue.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
*Player 5 joins the group"
Player5: "hello"
Player3: "hey"
Player5: "can you summon?"
*Summing Pending*
Player5: "thanks"

Then literally no one talks unless it's the tank saying something like, "going Dino, Priest, Troll, then Spider" (Atal'Dazar).

Here what happens when you wipe for whatever:
*group dies*
*no one talks, they just run back and pull again*

Here's what happens when you wipe on a boss and someone made a critical mistake:
*Player4 killed by Pursuit*
Player1: "You need to run away if you get targeted."
________________________

There's my experience in the past 50 or so Mythic+ runs I've done with all PUGs. To be as transparent as possible, I've only had 1 jerk in the gorup, and that was me leaving a Mythic0 because I had limited time and we wiped to the first boss in King's Rest 5 times. The leader of the group was dropping Gold Spit under the boss, despite telling him specifically to not do that for the past 15min.

"Good luck"
*leaves group*


Glad you had a good time and nice people. I have had 1 to many bad experiences, they are not fun at all to me and if i never go back that is fine with me.

But i am sure some friends from guild or my son will drag me kicking and screaming into one, and it will be just as bad as every other one i have ever ran

Ever think that maybe ots because you are the problem???? Ever notice how most people complaining about toxicity in dungeons an raids are people that cant complete a mythic 0 or lfr raid...hmmm I wonder.
11/01/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Bettylight
Are the people complaining actually trying to find a M0 group, or are they just assuming it's too difficult and refuse to try?

[/quote]

It's this. I mean I get it, some people don't like a challenge. There's nothing wrong with that, hell I'll uninstall a mobile game as soon as it gets slightly challenging for me. That's because I play those game to relax and pass the time, so I don't want to be frustrated while I'm waiting on food or at the doctor's office or whatever. I'm sure people play WoW for the same reasons.

To those people I would just say; Give it a shot. Mythic zeroes don't have a timer and they don't have any affixes. On a scale of 1-10 difficulty, with 1 being a Normal dungeon, 10 being a Mythic Raid, I'd put a Heroic dungeon on a 3 and a Mythic Zero on about a 4 or 5. They really aren't that much more difficult than a Heroic and yeah, I do think they should be part of the Dungeon Finder.
The fundamental flaw in the forced M0/+ argument is that Blizz is attempting to force/coerce us into them.

I refuse. No, they're not "to hard". No, I'm not under-geared. No, I don't have "anxiety" issues. I just flat refuse to be told how to play WoW. I'll play it MY way. Or leave. At this point, millions have already left.

BFA is garbage. They stripped out or devalued virtually every reason to play WoW, EXCEPT for raiding and Mythic dungeons. How much open world gameplay is there in BFA? Virtually none? Classes were pruned almost beyond recognition and are bland and boring. Starter set of epics handed to us. What we got, was a shell of a game, linear, on rails, laser focused almost solely on raids and M+.

How many paying customers raid or run mid/high level M+? 10-20%? Are you one of them? Is that all you want or expect from WoW?
Mythic groups are easy to form. I completed the weekly quest on 3 toons in 2 hours. You want to know the secret to making it quick? Start the group yourself. Takes about 5 minutes and then you are golden.

And seriously, unless you are sub 310 ilvl the mythic dungeons are easy as hell.

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