Lost Codex Interview with Afrasiabi

Story Forum
11/04/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Halyndor
I'm also wonder that is there any Draenor orc mages exist in the game(would be cool if you can link me one)


There's, like, four or five scattered. There's not a lot. I can't think of any with actual names. The real confusing ones are the fire wielders in mage armour. Are they fire mages, or are they supposed to be cloth wearing shamans?

Still, there's at least this one, a summoner, that has mage abilities and can teleport in allies.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Black_Iron_Summoner

There are also Warcasters. In the past, Warcasters is a title generally associated with mages, but the Iron Horde Warcasters use... iron magic? I have no idea what is up with that. I guess if mages can conjure food, fire and frost, they can conjure iron? Still, we've seen Kirin Tor, blood elf and Nightborne Mages use the title of Warcaster, and no other class, so it seems to be a mage title.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Black_Iron_Warcaster
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ironmarch_Warcaster

They also employ Blood Mages... but I don't think those count as actual mages, so I won't count them.

The reason there's so few orc mages would likely be because Mar'gok said it'd take them years to understand the basics. There probably wasn't enough time inbetween the deal being made and our invasion of Draenor for orc mages to be employed en mass. But the Mag'har had thirty years to train further. Hence, their mass availability.

11/04/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Halyndor
about Kul Tiran their mage lore might be unclear but at least they have their own mages existed in the game


See... my view is actually the opposite. Lore is more important than a few scattered characters. There are examples of race/class combos in the game that aren't avaliable to players. There are tauren mages and rogues, but we can't play them. No one is questioning whether it's possible for Kul Tirans to be mages, it's whether there's enough to justify a playable base. A few scattered individuals may simply be that, a few scattered individuals.

That said, I'd honestly rather Kul Tiran mages simply because Tidesages use water elementals and wear cloth! Mages are a shoe in for Tidesages. Honestly, KT mages make more sense than priests. Have we actually seen a Kul Tiran priest? As in, Light 'n' Shadow?
11/03/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Darethy
Shadowlands are death.

Emerald Dream is life.

When the Shadowlands bleeds into the Emerald Dream, I.E causes things to die, it creates the Emerald Nightmare, a manifestation of that aspect running through the dream. Doesn't seem far fetched to me.
Except the EN is caused by the Old Gods. Which are Void, not Death.
11/04/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Vespero
11/03/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Darethy
Shadowlands are death.

Emerald Dream is life.

When the Shadowlands bleeds into the Emerald Dream, I.E causes things to die, it creates the Emerald Nightmare, a manifestation of that aspect running through the dream. Doesn't seem far fetched to me.
Except the EN is caused by the Old Gods. Which are Void, not Death.


But Death is a byproduct of the Void clashing with the Light, and all of the death elements are heavily derived from Void energies.

This doesn't mean the sphere of death LIKES the Void, but the Void is it's parent.
11/04/2018 11:55 AMPosted by Darethy
11/04/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Vespero
...Except the EN is caused by the Old Gods. Which are Void, not Death.


But Death is a byproduct of the Void clashing with the Light, and all of the death elements are heavily derived from Void energies.

This doesn't mean the sphere of death LIKES the Void, but the Void is it's parent.


Exactly how I viewed it. The four forces (order,disorder,life, death) are the intermingling of light and void in various compositions.
11/04/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Saiphas


Exactly how I viewed it. The four forces (order,disorder,life, death) are the intermingling of light and void in various compositions.


To me this isn't even really a new thing, I always considered everything on Azeroth to be a combination of these forces. Even early in the development of the lore, Void and Light magic were singled out for uniquely being able to survive in worlds where no other force existed.

Interesting tidbit from the Cults description way back in WoW magazine 4. The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow uses 'The Shadow' as a byword for reality, and shadow magic itself is described as the darkness cast in reflection of the light.
11/04/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Ximothy
Honestly, KT mages make more sense than priests. Have we actually seen a Kul Tiran priest? As in, Light 'n' Shadow?


Priests are almost always the go-to option as a healing class when a race is lacking in that department.
11/03/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Darethy
I mean, it's an entropic force of destruction that by itself has no meaning until it ineracts with the light, the literal source of life, at which point death, the ceasing of that life, occurs.

You don't think Void has more then a little to do with that?
I don't think the void is entropic at all. It shows none of the attributes related to entropy, and blizzard has certainly never suggested it is.
11/04/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Vespero
11/03/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Darethy
Shadowlands are death.

Emerald Dream is life.

When the Shadowlands bleeds into the Emerald Dream, I.E causes things to die, it creates the Emerald Nightmare, a manifestation of that aspect running through the dream. Doesn't seem far fetched to me.
Except the EN is caused by the Old Gods. Which are Void, not Death.


I always thought that the Nightmare was cancerous rather than the dream withering
11/03/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Darethy
Troll fans rejoice! Maybe we'll see Shadra in the future still.

Yes, the walking Forsaken stereotype likes a giant spider, SUE ME.
And possibly Rezan as well. Probably rules out Vol'jin becoming the new Loa of Kings unless the two somehow merge together or something.

Also good to know that Troll bat form lore is still safe as well.
11/05/2018 11:11 PMPosted by Albricksen
11/03/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Darethy
Troll fans rejoice! Maybe we'll see Shadra in the future still.

Yes, the walking Forsaken stereotype likes a giant spider, SUE ME.
And possibly Rezan as well. Probably rules out Vol'jin becoming the new Loa of Kings unless the two somehow merge together or something.

Also good to know that Troll bat form lore is still safe as well.

Can return =/= will return.

Even Bwonsamdi admits that everything has its time, and he was hesitant to challenge Rezan.
I'm going to thrown my two cents herected about Thros and the Nightmare Connection. Firstly, I just think some the lore stated here was made on the spot so there isn't really a "solid" foundation to bridge off of, with that in mine, I shall build an over elaborate theory on the nightmare, Thros and the drust.

Firstly, the Ancient Drust, even before Garok Tol's time, are said to worship nature in a balanced state. With life, there is death, and so on. This is contrary to the natural state of being in the Emerald Dream. Being a verdent jungle and eternal endless forest of infinite amounts of life and more. So it makes me wonder, if the Ancient Drust learned druidism via peering into the dream, how come they didn't develop a religion like Night Elves, or trolla, with verdant wildlife, immortal dieties, etc etc? Simple, they saw the Nightmare.

See, the Emerald Nightmare is really a "recent" thing, not being even 10k years old. The night elves would first discover the dream in an untainted, verdant time period where wild gods actively roamed the world. For all we know, however, the drust could've discovered the dream 4,000 years ago just before humans invade, or thousands of years ago. I like to Imagen they discovered it before humanity showed up, but after the elves made the first druid. With this sense of timing, the drust would discover a realm of both verdant life and endless decay and rot. From this, the first Thornspeakers saw a balance in an unbalanced realm. Life leads to death, death leads to life.

Years later after this philosophy and teaching is discovered, we know for a FACT that Garok Tol would corrupt this philosophy in a heavy favor of death. Worshipping it even in twisted fashion. This would lead to traitor trust eventually becoming allies and teachers to the kul tirans, spreading the original faith of balance to humanity. Garok Tol however, obsessed with the ideals of death, expands his knowledge into a section of the Emerald Dream, which see in game in OUR world is know as the Crimson Thicket, a red evil corrupted place...which is the same colors the corruptions of legion uses might I remind you, and binds the drust there. Similar in fashion to how druids settle in fertile lands in the dream, Like Mulgore or Moonglade.

So, in conclusion, Thros is a place in the emerald nightmare, he corrupted drust recide there scheming, but doesn't automatically make them old God fanatics. Simply the drust are a byproduct of the old gods manipulation of the dream.
11/06/2018 01:51 AMPosted by Hortonn
So, in conclusion, Thros is a place in the emerald nightmare, he corrupted drust recide there scheming, but doesn't automatically make them old God fanatics. Simply the drust are a byproduct of the old gods manipulation of the dream.


That was exactly what Afrasiabi had said!

Also remember the A Dark Place where we rescued Uuna? We got there from a Green Dragon Skeleton's Emerald Eye Gem...

The Emerald Nightmare is many(even if not all) of the Realms of Decay that represent the Shadowlands! The Shadowlands first appeared when Mortal Life first arose in the physical universe...

Titans, Old Gods, Aqir, N'raqi, Elementals and Naaru aren't exactly Mortal Life... The Shadowlands could have easily surfaced after Freya first created the Emerald Dream...
11/06/2018 02:02 AMPosted by Yvenathilm
11/06/2018 01:51 AMPosted by Hortonn
So, in conclusion, Thros is a place in the emerald nightmare, he corrupted drust recide there scheming, but doesn't automatically make them old God fanatics. Simply the drust are a byproduct of the old gods manipulation of the dream.


That was exactly what Afrasiabi had said!

Also remember the A Dark Place where we rescued Uuna? We got there from a Green Dragon Skeleton's Emerald Eye Gem...

The Emerald Nightmare is many(even if not all) of the Realms of Decay that represent the Shadowlands! The Shadowlands first appeared when Mortal Life first arose in the physical universe...

Titans, Old Gods, Aqir, N'raqi, Elementals and Naaru aren't exactly Mortal Life... The Shadowlands could have easily surfaced after Freya first created the Emerald Dream...


I'd Imagen the Shadowlands "leaking" into Dream is the death and corruption wrought by The Nightmare. So really the Shadowlands only recide there because death is also spreading throught it, rot, decay, corruption of sensibility, mindless violence. It could be there because of a byproduct of the nightmare itself.

Or hell, the nightmare itself could be a byproduct of the shadowlands. Yagg'soron Called himself the death god, assuming he had necromatic power, the corruption of the dream is a hole Yagg'saron created to let death bleed into a realm of total life, spreading it like wildfire via old God corruption.
11/06/2018 02:09 AMPosted by Hortonn
Or hell, the nightmare itself could be a byproduct of the shadowlands. Yagg'soron Called himself the death god, assuming he had necromatic power, the corruption of the dream is a hole Yagg'saron created to let death bleed into a realm of total life, spreading it like wildfire via old God corruption.


Yogg-Saron according to Uldir's Zek'voz encounter(Zek'voz was captured by Titan Data right after the Sundering) was originally using Pure Void attacks while when we fought him he used Death Magic attacks indicating that Yogg-Saron's access to the Emerald Dream(which happened after Zek'voz was captured) is the reason he's a Death entity.

The Emerald Dream according to Day of the Dragon and Twilight of the Aspects has a connection to Time and allows one to see future and past which pretty much means Time has no meaning in the Dream. It was almost certainly this that allowed Yogg-Saron to create the Shadowlands at the moment Life first surfaced since the Dream clearly transcends time.
11/03/2018 07:08 PMPosted by Saiphas
@Kisin, I might not have made myself clear with the qualifier I put in, but I don't tend to subscribe to the thematics that cosmic horror likes to portray. Atleast thematics of insignificance or helplessness. I like games that allow me to subvert that because I reject the core premise of cosmic horror I guess you could say.

Atleast when it comes to escapism, because good ol'reality does a good job of showcasing individual helplessness and insignificance. Call it a way to rage against the machine if you will. :)


Weirdly enough, my view is almost the perfect opposite of yours.

The idea that we humans can kill a cosmic entity that has existed since before our species was born is really depressing to me, because it means we are the be all end all of everything that exists. That idea makes the universe feel extremely small. It makes the universe, something vast and filled with all sorts of unknowable things and entities that are so far beyond us we can't even comprehend, and compresses it into something where all mysteries can be solved and all obstacles can be overcome. There's nothing to really strive toward or to learn.

In a way, I prefer to see us as insignificant because it means we have room to grow. I might feel an existential dread when I think of my life as inherently meaningless, but the alternative, a universe that has no great mysteries, is much worse. It's boring.

It's probably why cosmic horror gets me. I know full well that if it were real I'd be driven mad in my pursuit of knowledge of the unknown long ago, an easy victim to the unknowable. It's both terrifying and deeply fascinating.
11/06/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Kisin
11/03/2018 07:08 PMPosted by Saiphas
@Kisin, I might not have made myself clear with the qualifier I put in, but I don't tend to subscribe to the thematics that cosmic horror likes to portray. Atleast thematics of insignificance or helplessness. I like games that allow me to subvert that because I reject the core premise of cosmic horror I guess you could say.

Atleast when it comes to escapism, because good ol'reality does a good job of showcasing individual helplessness and insignificance. Call it a way to rage against the machine if you will. :)


Weirdly enough, my view is almost the perfect opposite of yours.

The idea that we humans can kill a cosmic entity that has existed since before our species was born is really depressing to me, because it means we are the be all end all of everything that exists. That idea makes the universe feel extremely small. It makes the universe, something vast and filled with all sorts of unknowable things and entities that are so far beyond us we can't even comprehend, and compresses it into something where all mysteries can be solved and all obstacles can be overcome. There's nothing to really strive toward or to learn.

In a way, I prefer to see us as insignificant because it means we have room to grow. I might feel an existential dread when I think of my life as inherently meaningless, but the alternative, a universe that has no great mysteries, is much worse. It's boring.

It's probably why cosmic horror gets me. I know full well that if it were real I'd be driven mad in my pursuit of knowledge of the unknown long ago, an easy victim to the unknowable. It's both terrifying and deeply fascinating.


See, this is escapism for me. Humans here in reality?? We are insignificant at the individual level. One human life doesn’t mean that much here in the real world, and as they say, life is cheap.

Also, the point of Lovecraft was Humans can never grow to reach cosmic horror, ever. That was part of his general thesis.
11/06/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Saiphas

See, this is escapism for me. Humans here in reality?? We are insignificant at the individual level. One human life doesn’t mean that much here in the real world, and as they say, life is cheap.

Also, the point of Lovecraft was Humans can never grow to reach cosmic horror, ever. That was part of his general thesis.


I can definitely understand your enjoyment of punching Cthulhu. Like I said, we just have polar opposite tastes in this regard.

I wonder if it relates to our race/class choices. You went with a human who regularly bends the forces of the universe to his will while I went with a troll that draws power from forces (nature) greater than himself to work in concert with said force.
The Emerald Nightmare has had more setbacks than Kael'thas Sunstrider...
11/06/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Kisin
11/06/2018 08:09 AMPosted by Saiphas

See, this is escapism for me. Humans here in reality?? We are insignificant at the individual level. One human life doesn’t mean that much here in the real world, and as they say, life is cheap.

Also, the point of Lovecraft was Humans can never grow to reach cosmic horror, ever. That was part of his general thesis.


I can definitely understand your enjoyment of punching Cthulhu. Like I said, we just have polar opposite tastes in this regard.

I wonder if it relates to our race/class choices. You went with a human who regularly bends the forces of the universe to his will while I went with a troll that draws power from forces (nature) greater than himself to work in concert with said force.


Probably, it also speaks to the point you raised in slot’s Titan thread re:Alieness.

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