RNG Rewards are NOT exciting

General Discussion
11/04/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Erictecleric

11/04/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Metrohaha
I hope people realize that. Part of the reason it feels like there is a lot of rng is because you just get so much more gear than you used to.


We don't want more gear drops we want fewer quality pieces of gear. Quality>Quantity. And yes I indeed would much rather have one great 385 crit/haste piece then 2 395 titan forging bs with vers/mastery.

[/quote]

This last comment sums it up for me. I did the four Mythic dungeons for the weekly. None of those dropped anything of interest but at least there would be a 370 reward at the end. And there was ... A 370 cloak (back) with two crap stats (for a blood DK): Mastery and Crit. So it is still in my bag and now I have decide whether to scrap or vendor it.
I'm fine with titanforging. I just wish there was some way to mcforge an item with a currency rather than it being solely based on RNG. You could even limit the amount of currency you get each week to keep it from being too tedious a grind and still keeping Rngforging special.
11/04/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Saeahiga
11/04/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Erictecleric
...

Of course RNG is in an MMO...We aren't saying get rid of RNG, we're saying bring it back to the way it was in previous expansions. There is a happy medium.

Like what? currency?

I remember people used to AFK in bgs just to gear their alts.. it was pure toxic environment.

This was all because of the "PVP vendor".

You shouldn't gear while being afk.. even if the ilvl is low or bad.

And again, if you complain about RNG you are really playing the wrong game.


Or they could bring back badge rewards for heroics like we used to have, you know kill two birds with one stone, make heroics useful for new and old, and give us something to work for, could also add them into Mythics.

There is zero excitement in RNG except for after your 6th head bit you finally get one with good stats, etc that you can immediately use.. oh wait AP required..

Rng on rng then add in an AP grind that you have to do to keep up, at least in the past we could plan, and actually had a reason to run heroics and dailies.
Now it all feels like a chore, for the past few weeks all I have done is log in do my AH, then toon jump until I just log out and go play GW2 or netflix something, today I informed my guild and CO GM I won't be on for a bit, taking a break for a least 8.1 maybe longer, there was a reason the older expacs had higher numbers, and it's not just because it was new.

I trully hope you are all enjoying it, right now I am not, its feels just like an extension of legion, rather than a new expac, and a chore to log in because I have to keep up appearances, played another game on the weekend, and for the first time in ages I actually had fun, it highlighted the lack of fun and inspiration WoW is giving me..

Sorry didn't mean this to be so long lol
11/04/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Metrohaha
I'll say that the most exciting moments of my game time out side of boss kills have all been big titanforge procs especially in mythic plus. They have all been on stream too and it's without question the cause of a big reaction for me and the viewers.

However, I sympathize with the call for more determined gear, provided people don't go overboard with it.

I feel like ions example was perfect. This game wouldn't function if every single item was gained in a set pattern and it was never this way in the past, but I do look towards the mythic plus vendor as a first step to allow better choice by the player and more controllable customization.

I'm confident they can strike a good middle ground, but it does need to be delicate because if it's done too haphazardly it will make gearing far too quick - and it's already WAY quicker than gearing was in the middle years.

I hope people realize that. Part of the reason it feels like there is a lot of rng is because you just get so much more gear than you used to.

The most exciting moment in gearing I have ever experienced was that day I was permitted to purchase a conquest weapon for the first time on a character in wod.

Yes, I could mark it on the calendar, because I knew exactly when it was going to happen.
11/04/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Metrohaha
I'll say that the most exciting moments of my game time out side of boss kills have all been big titanforge procs especially in mythic plus. They have all been on stream too and it's without question the cause of a big reaction for me and the viewers.

However, I sympathize with the call for more determined gear, provided people don't go overboard with it.

I feel like ions example was perfect. This game wouldn't function if every single item was gained in a set pattern and it was never this way in the past, but I do look towards the mythic plus vendor as a first step to allow better choice by the player and more controllable customization.

I'm confident they can strike a good middle ground, but it does need to be delicate because if it's done too haphazardly it will make gearing far too quick - and it's already WAY quicker than gearing was in the middle years.

I hope people realize that. Part of the reason it feels like there is a lot of rng is because you just get so much more gear than you used to.


Holy shill batman.

Not even being subtle about it these days huh.

RNG is fine to a point, but if you think this game is better off with this current level of RNG/timesink design you are dead wrong. I'm not sure why shills think blindly agreeing with blizzard helps make games better, it does the complete opposite.

Good lord man, learn some subtlety please! If not for us then for yourself!
11/04/2018 09:39 AMPosted by Wasselin
First off I want to say that I like BFA. I think it's a fine expansion. But this question at Blizzcon annoyed me because it's answer seems so disingenuous and disconnected from the individual player experience.

From Blizzcon Q&A:
Why is there so much RNG in the game and do you have plans to move away from that?

Ion: So definitely a concern we hear a lot. Throughout the history of World of Warcraft we've tried to strike a balance or find a way to handle navigate the waters of delivering rewards and having goals that you can work towrads. Our concern... ... there was a point where you can just actually mark the date on the calendar, where it's like alright, thirteen days from now I'm gonna get this... and there is no excitement or reward along the way it's just steady progress towards a goal. That's not the world we want to live in in it's entirety. The flipside obviously is one in which nothing feels predictable or nothing feels certain.

https://youtu.be/HxlaeIvnHqA

I want to REJECT that marking down on the calendar the day you get a reward is not exciting. It is exciting and it's especially rewarding because you earn it.

Take this study about the effect of vacations on stress. The study found that the days leading up to the vacation had the greater effect on stress levels than the vacation itself. The anticipation of planning the vacation, marking it down on the calendar, dreaming of how relaxing the vacation would be were all more fun than the actual vacation.

The anticipation of a reward is just as important, or more important, than the reward itself and the BFA model, for me, kills or subverts that anticipation in two ways.

The first is with RNG so pernicious that I feel trained to not expect a reward at all. The end of a mythic+ dungeon, an island expedition, world bosses, etc... all have RNG that is so low and rewards that are so random that I don't anticipate a reward at all. I suppose I do feel a surge of excitement when something does actually drop, but the problem is that my motivation to participate in these activities based on game rewards is ZERO. My motivation is solely based on things outside of the game: building my Raider.io score (points rewarded based on my effort), getting a good parse on Warcraft logs, or helping my guildies out.

The second is with RNG that subverts anticipation into anger. The Weekly Chest and Using a Bonus Roll are examples of this although there are many more. If I actually anticipate that maybe I will get a reward and then I don't, I feel anger. Like my time and effort is being wasted. I lose hope that I will ever get the item I want because statistically it's possible I won't. I chastise myself for even believing an item should or will drop for me in the first place, which takes us to the first point. This creates a negative feedback loop so that if I do ever get the drop I'm looking for I only feel relief that it's over instead of excitement.

The reason that Ion's answer bothered me is because NOTHING in BFA is deterministic. On the scale of deterministic rewards vs random rewards WoW is so far to the RNG side that it's seem disingenuous to even bring up any kind of balance between the two. Even things like reputation grinds or azerite farming is random because you don't know what World Quests and missions will appear and when. There is not a single reward that I can mark on my calendar and say, YEP, if I put in the time and effort that's the day I'll get it.

TLDR: Random rewards of course have a place in an MMORPG, but so do rewards that acknowledge time and effort that you can work towards. I am hopeful that they are trying to strike more of a balance, but I think they have a long way to go.


I don't really agree with any of this.

You can make the argument that rng is not exciting, but I can think of nothing more boring than marking days off a calendar til I get something.

Do you count down the days till payday? I don't, because I know it happens the same time every time. It's reassuring knowing after I put in my 40 hours I got something waiting for me at the end of the week, but to call that exciting is kinda silly.

We had this system before and the old complaints about it have not changed. Instead of complaining about rng, people will be complaining about how they have to meet their weekly quota to keep up with everyone else.

Like I said before, you're trading the lotto for a punch clock and neither system is perfect and groups of people will be unhappy with either. Could there be more of a balance? Maybe. They are adding this azerite thing so lets start with that and see how it works out.
I preferred the currency system because I would run the dungeon to get the drop. If I didn't get the drop, the currency would build up so that I could get a piece to hold over that wouldn't drag my ilvl down. If I got the drop, great, currency built up to help replace other areas that are lacking.

RNG is still there, currency is just tangible bad luck protection.
11/04/2018 09:39 AMPosted by Wasselin
The anticipation of planning the vacation, marking it down on the calendar, dreaming of how relaxing the vacation would be were all more fun than the actual vacation.


lmao! What vacations have you been on??
11/04/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Laurethelas
At least now we have guaranteed chests, guaranteed rewards from emissaries, etc...


Guaranteed chests and rewards doesn't mean I can use the stuff IN the chest or the reward.....
I get far too much I CAN'T use and far too little I can.
It's to the point where if I get anything that isn't titanforged, it feels wasted - and after a point it doesn't feel worth it to keep going in the vain hopes that, even if what you want drops, it'll forge. It's like 2 layers of RNG, and it's nothing more than stressful.

It feels like a system designed to keep me logging in, but as a result, I just can't bring myself to progress, it's not satisfying, even when I do get that super titanforged upgrade. It just feels empty.
11/04/2018 11:56 PMPosted by Mysteren
11/04/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Laurethelas
At least now we have guaranteed chests, guaranteed rewards from emissaries, etc...


Guaranteed chests and rewards doesn't mean I can use the stuff IN the chest or the reward.....
I get far too much I CAN'T use and far too little I can.


Having some type of duplicate protection would help this enormously. Weapons are very hard to get these days, having dual stat weapons would help out hybrids a ton. I just realized the other day that the axe I had in my offhand was an int weapon...d'oh.
Every week since Legion's launch, I've been doing the Nightfallen Emissary for a Llothien Prowler. I'm not going to feel excited for this mount when/if the gods of luck decide to bless me... I'm going to feel relieved and a little bit annoyed.

On the contrary, every week with no fox to show for my time and effort and knowing the possibility that I could potentially do this until the day the game shuts down without ever getting it, causes the entire situation to feel like a hopeless chore. Then I look at the Stormdrake, the Infinite Timereaver, Midnight, Both Parrots, the hyena, the donkey, Swift Albino Raptor, Skullripper... Just to name a few in Legion and BFA alone.

The amount of RNG is absolutely lopsided.
A little RNG is fine..

Is that boss going to drop an upgrade? Will it drop the BiS piece I've been trying for? Will the mount drop this run?
Random world drops off random mobs when you're just out in world doing nothing.
Big money rare item BoE's dropping off raid trash.

That all is reasonable RNG.

The BS we have now is unfun, unfulfilling, and has literally led to more raider, and average player, burn-out than the eternity of the WoD content drought could ever claim.

It is just a constant grind of hoping for "luck."

Blizz has decided that players having to repeatedly push levers in the hope of a randomly dispensed "better" treat is a good model for the game.

It's not.
Except whenever a guy gets a titanforge upgrade they link it in chat and go "YAY"
Those ppl exist and until they exist , Rng will be exciting in blizzard's book

So next time you get a titanforge upgrade ........delete it and show blizz you hate it in chat :)

Good luck in your quest
I love being able to say I'll get y reward on x date. When that date rolls around I'm VERY excited because that's the day all my hard work and dedication pays off.
11/04/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Metrohaha
This game wouldn't function if every single item was gained in a set pattern


I agree here unless its your first time playing but I believe we can hybridize the RNG and the set pattern mold together to create something a lot more exciting, heck even add a third element into it perhaps, like maybe if your faction rep was high enough and the dungeon was a faction boost dungeon we could gain better gear stats or traits as well, just get creative Blizz cmon
As many have said, there needs to be a happy medium. COMPLETELY planned gear systems aren't fine. They are rational, and some may think that makes them fun, but reality ends up proving otherwise. That said, the game right now has veered way too far in the direction of RNG. We could definitely stand to go back to a balance between random gear drops and currencies/vendors.
11/04/2018 09:39 AMPosted by Wasselin

I want to REJECT that marking down on the calendar the day you get a reward is not exciting. It is exciting and it's especially rewarding because you earn it.


If I do a job, I earn the money they pay me. Getting my paycheck every Friday is expected, but definitely NOT exciting.
If I received an unexpected $1000 bonus, then that would be exciting.
11/04/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Metrohaha
I'll say that the most exciting moments of my game time out side of boss kills have all been big titanforge procs especially in mythic plus. They have all been on stream too and it's without question the cause of a big reaction for me and the viewers.

However, I sympathize with the call for more determined gear, provided people don't go overboard with it.

I feel like ions example was perfect. This game wouldn't function if every single item was gained in a set pattern and it was never this way in the past, but I do look towards the mythic plus vendor as a first step to allow better choice by the player and more controllable customization.

I'm confident they can strike a good middle ground, but it does need to be delicate because if it's done too haphazardly it will make gearing far too quick - and it's already WAY quicker than gearing was in the middle years.

I hope people realize that. Part of the reason it feels like there is a lot of rng is because you just get so much more gear than you used to.


If that's the most exciting moments of the game, then it really shows the pathetic state of the game.
11/04/2018 08:59 PMPosted by Zingashi
I'm okay with randomness, but I wish there was a bit of consistency with things like emissary rewards and WQs that reward rank 3 food/alchemy recipes. We should be able to count on getting a new azerite cache or recipe every few days.

It’s been almost 2 weeks since I’ve seen an azerite cache emissary reward just war resources and ap is this rng or a big either way it sucks the fun out of the game what is the point of playing if your just on an endless grind with no pay off

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