How is Frost doing?

Mage
I'm trying to decide on a class for Zandalari when it releases come 8.1, but I am having a hard time. I saw that frost (the most appealing mage spec to me) is getting nerfed, will this render them completely obsolete as some have previously said on this forum. Or is it an overreaction and just a minor nerf.
Frost snares are getting gutted. Frost dps is dropping by about 2% on aoe fights and staying about the same (below avg) for ST.

Id roll a different spec. Fire seems to be doing very well.
Frost will still be strong in M+ and perfectly viable in raids - if you like it, play it, but give the other 2 a shot as well. Fundamentally, they all play with relative similarity.
Feels really good and strong and fun to play, but I still have legendary rings I am leveling with. It's not weak by means. I also play fire but have not tried arcane yet this expansion
Frost will hit like a wet noodle. Fire is the way to go simple for its burst
Frost snares are being nerfed by over half . Pvp wise it will die easy if they keep these changes . Pve they are ok, could use a buff . Frost bolt takes 2 seconds to cast and hits very low .I wouldnt recommend a mage if these changes stick
I think even with the nerfs, it'll still be the AoE mage spec of choice.

It's single target is awful compared to fire and arcane.

Not entirely sure it's the go-to on cleave anymore. I haven't been able to pull great numbers where cleave is part of the fight in Uldir (like Zek and Vectis). Always in the top 3 on Zul fights though.

Anyone play fire on Zek and Vectis and just trust splash damage for cleave?
Specialization

Frost Mage Effect #1 Apply Aura: Modifies Damage/Healing Done: -24-22%
Effect #2 Apply Aura: Modifies Periodic Damage/Healing Done: -24-22%

Blizzard: Ice shards pelt the target area, dealing [(14.3% of Spell power) * 8] Frost damage over 8 sec and reducing movement speed by 50% for 15 sec.1.50 sec.
Frost (Level 63)
Each time Blizzard deals damage, the cooldown of Frozen Orb is reduced by 0.5 sec
Range changed from 35 yd range to 40 yd range

Frozen Orb: Launches an orb of swirling ice up to 40 yards forward which deals up to [20 * (17.3%15.5% of Spell power)] Frost damage to all enemies it passes through. Grants 1 charge of Fingers of Frost when it first damages an enemy.
Enemies damaged by the Frozen Orb are slowed by 50% for 15 sec.30% for 3 sec.

Talents

Comet Storm Calls down a series of 7 icy comets on and around the target, that deals up to [7 * (45%40% of Spell power)] Frost damage to all enemies within 6 yds of its impacts.

Source: https://ptr.wowhead.com/mage-changes-tides-of-vengeance

I bolded the intended changes for 8.1; the numbers right before are the current numbers. I did not include the spell changes that are only tooltip updates.

Overall a damage buff to the specialization with a slight damage nerf to orb along with a huge nerf to the snares of the spec.
11/06/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Coverfire
Frost will still be strong in M+ and perfectly viable in raids - if you like it, play it, but give the other 2 a shot as well. Fundamentally, they all play with relative similarity.


Frost is already not viable for decent raiding, unless your guild is nice enough to put up with it.
Frost is very last currently in Heroic Uldir and middle of the pack in Mythic Uldir. Probably because of the higher skill cap, missing just one shatter combo can drop your overall dps a ton so rotation timing is very important. With the heavy nerfs coming to snares in M+ other classes will have better aoe snares so we will lose our niche.

Definitly stay away unless like others say you have a nice guild who don't mind bringing along underperforming specs.
11/08/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Partyunicorn
11/06/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Coverfire
Frost will still be strong in M+ and perfectly viable in raids - if you like it, play it, but give the other 2 a shot as well. Fundamentally, they all play with relative similarity.


Frost is already not viable for decent raiding, unless your guild is nice enough to put up with it.


Frost - and every other spec in the game - is "viable" through the highest content without being a notable detriment to your raid, and performs perfectly well with its own niche fights. If you're not pushing world firsts, benching someone for their spec when they all fall within a single aggregated standard deviation is... reaching.
11/08/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Coverfire
11/08/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Partyunicorn
...

Frost is already not viable for decent raiding, unless your guild is nice enough to put up with it.


Frost - and every other spec in the game - is "viable" through the highest content without being a notable detriment to your raid, and performs perfectly well with its own niche fights. If you're not pushing world firsts, benching someone for their spec when they all fall within a single aggregated standard deviation is... reaching.
“When they all fall within a single aggregated standard deviation”...ugh. Even if this made sense and you knew what you were saying no one else would understand. Let’s all take a moment to look up standard deviation and learn something new! Better that than whine about wow and then pretend to know statistics.
I’m sure balancing so many complex specs is challenging but mages just feel poopy right now. Could just be my reaction to BfA after legion, which felt so rich and exciting.
11/08/2018 06:00 PMPosted by Carleton
“When they all fall within a single aggregated standard deviation”...ugh. Even if this made sense and you knew what you were saying no one else would understand. Let’s all take a moment to look up standard deviation and learn something new! Better that than whine about wow and then pretend to know statistics.
I’m sure balancing so many complex specs is challenging but mages just feel poopy right now. Could just be my reaction to BfA after legion, which felt so rich and exciting.


You're right, "aggregated standard deviation" was redundant. Break down the rest for me then, I'd love for you to explain how I'm wrong.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

lmao you can literally visually see frost mage as the mean spec in the bracket that wcl automatically defers to
Yeah, when it comes to logs that have already been analyzed and organized for us I agree it’s easy and fine to just look at where specs fall and what the difference in average dps is from bottom to top (15-20% seems a little high by the way). I also see that frost is average for mythic. Not really sure what that has to do with the point I made. I do get frustrated seeing you make an argument by throwing out statistical terms that you don’t understand. It’s dishonest and reeks of insecurity. Probably just me projecting some existential angst, what with the whole post truth trump world.

Standard deviation is straight forward to calculate. You can plug in the numbers for average dps across classes and see for yourself that they (probably?) don’t “fall within one standard deviation”. Assuming the numbers are close to normally distributed, you’d expect to see that about two thirds of classes fall within one SD of the mean.
11/08/2018 09:01 PMPosted by Carleton
Yeah, when it comes to logs that have already been analyzed and organized for us I agree it’s easy and fine to just look at where specs fall and what the difference in average dps is from bottom to top (15-20% seems a little high by the way). I also see that frost is average for mythic. Not really sure what that has to do with the point I made. I do get frustrated seeing you make an argument by throwing out statistical terms that you don’t understand. It’s dishonest and reeks of insecurity. Probably just me projecting some existential angst, what with the whole post truth trump world.

Standard deviation is straight forward to calculate. You can plug in the numbers for average dps across classes and see for yourself that they (probably?) don’t “fall within one standard deviation”. Assuming the numbers are close to normally distributed, you’d expect to see that about two thirds of classes fall within one SD of the mean.


Sure, i'll concede that I guessed on the math and oversimplified on a video game forum - the 1SD CI range of +/- 3.4 only puts the vast majority of specs within 1SD (with the majority of outliers being on the upper-end which is a further argument for "no weak spec,") as opposed to every one of them, though this looks at just the one data set obviously. Regardless, there are no true outliers in this sample and my point that they're all viable holds now that we've honed in on the statistic distribution of this relatively arbitrary data set and have clarified a couple in the upper chamber of the 2nd SD.
Yes yes this is all good and all cause mythic gives more stats allowing frost to be near shatter cap and we do a bit better, However most of the player base does not do mythic or at least while it is current, lets go more of an average player vs the top shall we?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4&dataset=75

Most people do heroic and normal and most don't even parse 75%. Some mage tuning needs to be done and not just nerfs but a quality of life overhaul as well to the entire class. Can't tell you how great it feels to cast for 2.1 seconds and pray I don't have to move or get interrupted and have a frostbolt MAYBE crit for 7k lol.
Even in the sample you linked, frost isn't doing that poorly. Sure, it could do with a slight bump to bring it closer to the over-performing specs, but at current it's perfectly viable. No matter what, one spec has to be at the bottom. Looking at 75th normal, still viable. Rotational understanding vs. difficulty is also important - heroic at the 75th, you probably don't have every mage performing the rotation that perfectly. Then there's fight by fight viability, wherein frost excels on a couple of fights and that pulls its overall stats up in mythic parsing - all things to consider, or ignore, given it's going to be viable regardless.
11/08/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Dokkan
Yes yes this is all good and all cause mythic gives more stats allowing frost to be near shatter cap and we do a bit better

Not how stats work, not how Frost works, and aggregates are a terrible measurement of a spec's value.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum