does the alliance lose racial leaders?

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11/11/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Sarm
Edit: Anyway, I've seen Fandral's name pop up a few times when people talk about racial leaders. Was he really that important that he's on the same leadership level as Tyrande and Malfurion?

It's been so long and there have been so many retcons that it's hard for me to remember, but I'm pretty sure Fandral and Tyrande were considered mostly equals in Kaldorei society while Malfurion was asleep, even though Tyrande was the official head of state. Also, Fandral was responsible for organizing the growth of Teldrassil, so the common citizens probably gave him major points for that.
Varian was lost for a few years. He found his way back, though. Oh and then there's that one time he died.
11/11/2018 06:58 AMPosted by Tulek
Varian was lost for a few years. He found his way back, though. Oh and then there's that one time he died.
He did last 4 expansions. Like, 4.001 expansions.
You are forgetting that Garrosh dropped a mana bomb on the alliance and wiped out half of the generals and most of the 7th fleet. I know, not faction leaders but you get the point. In one move he killed most of the alliance war hardened heros on the rise.
11/11/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Rocksteady
You are forgetting that Garrosh dropped a mana bomb on the alliance and wiped out half of the generals and most of the 7th fleet. I know, not faction leaders but you get the point. In one move he killed most of the alliance war hardened heros on the rise.


Oh no, the evil thing blizzard did to make it so a horde character had a reason to be raided is totally a good reason to kill him, not like they only did that to make it so we had a reason to kill him and that if they never planned on raiding him they would have never made him do that.

Theramore was destroyed so blizzard could kill Garrosh by giving him a big evil moment, nothing more nothing less, to pretend that it would still happen if blizzard never planned on raiding him is a falsehood. Same reason why i think Sylvanas will be raided, blizzard always makes it so their big evil guy does something big and evil at the beginning of the expansion. Arthas attacked the Capitals, Deathwing caused the Cataclysm, Garrosh Blew up theramore, the Legion killed Varian and Vol'jin, and Sylvanas burnt Teldrassal.

Food for thought, if blizzard stopped making horde leaders evil raid bosses, they will stop destroying alliance towns to give people a reason to make them evil raid bosses.
11/11/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Reallyhappy
11/11/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Rocksteady
You are forgetting that Garrosh dropped a mana bomb on the alliance and wiped out half of the generals and most of the 7th fleet. I know, not faction leaders but you get the point. In one move he killed most of the alliance war hardened heros on the rise.


Oh no, the evil thing blizzard did to make it so a horde character had a reason to be raided is totally a good reason to kill him, not like they only did that to make it so we had a reason to kill him and that if they never planned on raiding him they would have never made him do that.

Theramore was destroyed so blizzard could kill Garrosh by giving him a big evil moment, nothing more nothing less, to pretend that it would still happen if blizzard never planned on raiding him is a falsehood. Same reason why i think Sylvanas will be raided, blizzard always makes it so their big evil guy does something big and evil at the beginning of the expansion. Arthas attacked the Capitals, Deathwing caused the Cataclysm, Garrosh Blew up theramore, the Legion killed Varian and Vol'jin, and Sylvanas burnt Teldrassal.

Food for thought, if blizzard stopped making horde leaders evil raid bosses, they will stop destroying alliance towns to give people a reason to make them evil raid bosses.


Sure...I don't disagree. Point is...a LOT of Alliance generals died in a single moment. Both sides have had their fair share of important casualties. It really isn't one sided.
We don't loose a lot of leaders, just have hem fall into obscurity behind humans or forced to be netruel
11/10/2018 01:47 PMPosted by Galien
So in 8.1 we basically have another horde leader killed off and our navy sunk by Kul'tiran military grade plot armor and just to spite us Jaina escapes without us even capturing her. When do our racial leaders get to shine and make a difference instead of being out smarted and over powered by the most annoyingly written and unbearable characters in the game( Jaina and Tyrande)


Alliance leaders are, regardless of their actions, written noble heroes that Alliance players can feel good about having. As such, they can't be killed because that would make the Alliance players feel bad.

Horde leaders are villains, or potential villains, to allow Alliance to be the noble heroes. They will be used up as needed. Of course it clearly doesn't matter what Horde players think.
11/10/2018 08:23 PMPosted by Linoradrin
If Blizzard loves to write the Horde, I can not imagine what it would be like if they hated it.


They'd genocide a horde race to make an important horde character that only a few like feel bad. The Horde loses characters because Blizzard doesn't bother to write new ones or bother to develop new cities in their juvenile attempt to re-create their WC2 head-canon.

11/11/2018 06:58 AMPosted by Tulek
Varian was lost for a few years. He found his way back, though. Oh and then there's that one time he died.


Varian was a literal "Who?!" until Wrath for the majority of players.
11/10/2018 02:02 PMPosted by Balloonfish
So...yes, the Alliance loses leaders. Usually it's part of a larger plot, and they have a ready replacement waiting.
This. More often they're lost to neutrality than death. For once in BfA we're actually gaining one of those leaders back. A shame the rest like Khadgar can't drop the act and realize Sylvanas' Horde will kill all of them too eventually.

[/quote]

They are lost to "neutrality" so Blizzard can do things like wrap of the entire Legion story-arc by having us follow characters from Alliance lore and ignore Horde lore completely.
On our side it's more of a death by a thousand cuts scenario. Blizzard will introduce really great characters and then kill them off within about ten minutes. Rest in peace, Liam.
11/11/2018 09:56 AMPosted by Tannaril
They are lost to "neutrality" so Blizzard can do things like wrap of the entire Legion story-arc by having us follow characters from Alliance lore and ignore Horde lore completely.
Name a Horde character that owns a spaceship or has been to Argus.
11/10/2018 08:23 PMPosted by Linoradrin
If Blizzard loves to write the Horde, I can not imagine what it would be like if they hated it.


They'd genocide a horde race to make an important horde character that only a few like feel bad. The Horde loses characters because Blizzard doesn't bother to write new ones or bother to develop new cities in their juvenile attempt to re-create their WC2 head-canon.

THIS is one of my biggest contentions with everything!

This stupid idea that Eternal Return makes for good entertainment. We cannot have ideas, stories that haven't been told before. Everything we create must be a recreation or an attempt to recapture nostalgia. The same way Star Wars has become a dog chasing its tail.

We could have new ideas and new characters to go with them in our World of Warcraft but no, nobody wants to go there. They keep asking themselves, "What did we like about Warcraft?" and forgetting that they've already done that and continued to do that.

WoD was the most blatant example. I don't mind the multiverse as a narrative tool to explore what-ifs or space travel or even time travel. What I mind is that those devices which offer limitless possibilities are employed to bring us more of the same, to soft retcon previous events, and then discarded because we have no vision.

So we're stuck in this endless cycle of stupidity and nothing. Tha's why the Horde keeps going through Warchiefs. That's why the Alliance will never not be full of nothing.
Mekkatorque litterally is on ice.
Do the Horde lose zones?

by the most annoyingly written and unbearable characters in the game( Jaina and Tyrande)


Says the guy from the faction of Nathanos and Sylvanas. I play Horde and I can't stand them.
11/11/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Jerolan
11/11/2018 09:56 AMPosted by Tannaril
They are lost to "neutrality" so Blizzard can do things like wrap of the entire Legion story-arc by having us follow characters from Alliance lore and ignore Horde lore completely.
Name a Horde character that owns a spaceship or has been to Argus.


I see what you mean, its not like the Argus took anyone from the Alliance that wasn't Dranei. Wait, they did exactly that! There was no reason why Blizzard couldn't have had a significant Horde presence (let alone not have some of the "leader" make anti-Horde rants in front of Horde characters).
11/11/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Tannaril
I see what you mean, its not like the Argus took anyone from the Alliance that wasn't Dranei. Wait, they did exactly that!
Who's that? Turalyon and Alleria? They weren't Alliance at the time, but I'm already tired of this rerun.
11/11/2018 05:17 AMPosted by Kelrexia
For what it’s worth, I feel like threads like this that blame the other faction for bad faction stories instead of Blizzard is why Blizzard feels they can get away with writing bad faction stories.


Just quoting that because it's the best post in the entire Story Forum.
11/10/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Kisin
He is a blood elf character to his roots. Blood elves are Horde, therefore Kael'thas is Horde


Except that he was allied with the Burning Legion by the time the rest of the blood elves (those still on Azeroth) joined the horde.

Kael'thas was never part of the horde period. So ifs, no buts, never!
11/11/2018 10:38 PMPosted by Denona


Except that he was allied with the Burning Legion by the time the rest of the blood elves (those still on Azeroth) joined the horde.

Kael'thas was never part of the horde period. So ifs, no buts, never!


You're just ignoring what I am saying. It's not about what faction he was technically a part of before he was turned into a villain. It's about what race he is the definitive cultural icon for and what could have been if Blizzard decided to make him an actual faction leader of his people rather than a loot pinata.

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