Sylvanas Is Not Evil. She Is An Anti-Hero.

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10/15/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Ricros
She actually did have a reason to burn Teldrassil as opposed to keep it hostage.
Yes, she did have a reason. But given that it's a stupidass reason, that doesn't earn her any points. If their entire society and families burning didn't demoralize them, Malfurion's death wasn't gonna demoralize them. Stop pretending it was gonna work.
10/15/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Dewfury
I love when people act like people who like Sylvanas are evil people outside of the game.


When people call genocide, burning innocent noncombatant men, women, and children alive, slavery, and the like "morally grey" and/or refuse to condemn it as evil (even in a fictional setting)...not only that, but go so far as to cheer those actions on? It says a lot about who they are as a person.

It's one thing to slay monsters in a fictional setting, it's another to actively participate/commit atrocities or be party to them (even if they are fictional) and then claim (at a minimum) the acts are neutral morally, or at worst claim they are actually good actions and other support those positions.

Does it make such a person evil?

I can't say.

What I can say is I wouldn't turn my back on such a person, leave anything valuable near them unattended, or trust them with small children.
10/15/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Ricros
10/15/2018 03:57 PMPosted by Willkiller

LoL at the idea that Malfurion's death would have demoralized the night elves


Who knows?


Anyone that doesn't have a rotting brain.
10/16/2018 05:56 PMPosted by Wanobi

When people call genocide, burning innocent noncombatant men, women, and children alive, slavery, and the like "morally grey" and/or refuse to condemn it as evil (even in a fictional setting)...not only that, but go so far as to cheer those actions on? It says a lot about who they are as a person.

It's one thing to slay monsters in a fictional setting, it's another to actively participate/commit atrocities or be party to them (even if they are fictional) and then claim (at a minimum) the acts are neutral morally, or at worst claim they are actually good actions and other support those positions.

Does it make such a person evil?

I can't say.

What I can say is I wouldn't turn my back on such a person, leave anything valuable near them unattended, or trust them with small children.


Let us all have a moment of silence for non-existent fantasy creatures who didn't actually die in a fictional world that has no bearing on our world.

Seriously, thinking less of a person just because they enjoy an event in a fictional world is just plain childish.

10/16/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Willkiller

Anyone that doesn't have a rotting brain.


Or better yet, the writers at Blizzard might know.

Part of what Sylvanas expected to occur after attacking Teldrassil did actually happen though. She predicted that the Alliance would be split as part of them would want to try and retake Darkshore and the Gilneans would demand aid in retaking their kingdom.

As we have seen in the 8.1 PTR, the first part of what she predicted did happen. The Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance are split between focusing on the main war and retaking Darkshore.
10/16/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Ricros
Part of what Sylvanas expected to occur after attacking Teldrassil did actually happen though. She predicted that the Alliance would be split as part of them would want to try and retake Darkshore and the Gilneans would demand aid in retaking their kingdom.

As we have seen in the 8.1 PTR, the first part of what she predicted did happen. The Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance are split between focusing on the main war and retaking Darkshore.


Just think of how much more effective hostages would have been in preventing the attack on UC.

Just think of how the worgen and night elves are now a united front in retaking Darkshore instead of at odds over Gilneas vs Teldrasil first.

She predicted a lot, and pretty much all of it wrong. Even your point about the NE going their own way didn't predict the worgen joining them.

None of that was dependent upon Malfurion dying first.

/sarcasm on
So, she got one thing partially correct, she must be a genius!
/sarcasm off

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, doesn't make it any less broken or wrong the rest of the time.

She is EVIL.
10/16/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Willkiller

Just think of how much more effective hostages would have been in preventing the attack on UC.


With Malfurion alive and his connection to nature, that method wouldn't have worked out so well for very long.

10/16/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Willkiller

Just think of how the worgen and night elves are now a united front in retaking Darkshore instead of at odds over Gilneas vs Teldrasil first.


Sylvanas wasn't aware the Greymane would have opted to help the Night Elves retake Darnassus first regardless of whether or not it burned.

10/16/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Willkiller

She predicted a lot, and pretty much all of it wrong. Even your point about the NE going their own way didn't predict the worgen joining them.

None of that was dependent upon Malfurion dying first.


Predictions aren't always correct. But the entire point of attacking Teldrassil was to split the Alliance apart whether or not it was burned and as we see in 8.1, the Alliance are split apart between the Night Elves trying to retake Darkshore and the rest of the Alliance fighting the Horde on Zandalar and Kul Tiras

10/16/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Willkiller

/sarcasm on
So, she got one thing partially correct, she must be a genius!
/sarcasm off

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, doesn't make it any less broken or wrong the rest of the time.

She is EVIL.


So being wrong about something makes a character evil?

That is a very odd criteria you have there for classifying a character.
You can lie to me, to the people who says sylvanas is evil.

But don't lie to yourself... it's unhealthy.
No valid argument? I was just responding to a point you made where you stated she was wrong about something and then you follow it up saying she is evil.

Me thinking that the way you judge whether or not a character is evil is rather odd =/= Me not having a valid argument

Look, if you hate Sylvanas then I won't hold it against you. People have their reasons for not liking characters. The whole point of my post was to simply shed some light on the differences between evil and anti-hero and how Sylvanas fits the criteria for being an anti-hero.
okay if she's a anti-hero.

so is arthas.
10/16/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Ricros
No valid argument? I was just responding to a point you made where you stated she was wrong about something and then you follow it up saying she is evil.

Me thinking that the way you judge whether or not a character is evil is rather odd =/= Me not having a valid argument

Look, if you hate Sylvanas then I won't hold it against you. People have their reasons for not liking characters. The whole point of my post was to simply shed some light on the differences between evil and anti-hero and how Sylvanas fits the criteria for being an anti-hero.


In case you haven't noticed, I have ended pretty much every post I made in this thread the same way with the same three words.

"She is evil."

Most people would realize that is not connected to her being wrong, but to her actions that are evil when looked at by any rational objective person.

That is too much to expect from a Sylvanatic, I suppose.

Plenty of others have given many good points on why she is not an anti-hero and is evil, I do not need to rehash them.

Go read "Ultimate Antihero" and compare Sylvanas to Kamishiro Homura, maybe you will get the difference then.

She is evil.
10/16/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Willkiller

In case you haven't noticed, I have ended pretty much every post I made in this thread the same way with the same three words.

"She is evil."

Most people would realize that is not connected to her being wrong, but to her actions that are evil when looked at by any rational objective person.

That is too much to expect from a Sylvanatic, I suppose.

Plenty of others have given many good points on why she is not an anti-hero and is evil, I do not need to rehash them.

Go read "Ultimate Antihero" and compare Sylvanas to Kamishiro Homura, maybe you will get the difference then.

She is evil.


I've read a lot of the posts in this thread and all they do is list bad things she has done.

And when it comes down to it, all they do is prove the point I made in my OP. An anti-hero is a protagonist who lacks heroic qualities and does show to have villainous traits.

Blizzard themselves have even said that she is not evil. If you're going to try and argue against them, then you might as well try to tell your boss at work how things work, see how that goes.
10/07/2018 02:01 PMPosted by Enexemander
Let's apply Occam's Razor-

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

She's evil, and you're rationalizing.


She's not, and you're dense. Mines shorter do i win?
10/16/2018 08:43 PMPosted by Ricros
I've read a lot of the posts in this thread and all they do is list bad things she has done.

And when it comes down to it, all they do is prove the point I made in my OP. An anti-hero is a protagonist who lacks heroic qualities and does show to have villainous traits.

Blizzard themselves have even said that she is not evil. If you're going to try and argue against them, then you might as well try to tell your boss at work how things work, see how that goes.


Yes, yes, we understand that you think that there is no such thing as evil, in particular when it pertains to your waifu.

The rest of the logical populace knows better. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

How about this, give us an example of anything that you consider evil.

Good luck giving an example that Sylvanas hasn't done in some form already though.

BTW, I do tell my boss how things work all the time, it is part of my job, so it goes really well. Ex.: "Hey Willkiller, look at this print, how long do you think this would take you to build and what sequence do you think would work best in building it?" Willkiller looks at print for 10 min. "Well boss, A to B and B to C will take an entire day per unit with the print specs required, D needs to go into A before A to B, E needs to go into C before C to B. Probably should allot 3 days per unit, it should only take 2.5 days per unit, but need to allow a bit extra for any problems that may happen."

She is evil.
Sylvanas is probably the single best leader in wow. She is good at what she does.

She is also evil.

I do not think of her as an anti-hero. She is simply to selfish. I think they can make a redemption arc out of this but they have dug themselves a really big hole. Most of the solutions I have come with will never absolve her of her crimes. So any redemption would mean her permanent death. However even if she sacrificed herself to save the world I am not sure that would be enough for redemption.
10/16/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Willkiller

Yes, yes, we understand that you think that there is no such thing as evil, in particular when it pertains to your waifu.

The rest of the logical populace knows better. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

How about this, give us an example of anything that you consider evil.

Good luck giving an example that Sylvanas hasn't done in some form already though.


This "logical populace" can't seem to grasp the concept of a grey area. This franchise has never and won't ever be all black and white.

10/16/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Willkiller

BTW, I do tell my boss how things work all the time, it is part of my job, so it goes really well. Ex.: "Hey Willkiller, look at this print, how long do you think this would take you to build and what sequence do you think would work best in building it?" Willkiller looks at print for 10 min. "Well boss, A to B and B to C will take an entire day per unit with the print specs required, D needs to go into A before A to B, E needs to go into C before C to B. Probably should allot 3 days per unit, it should only take 2.5 days per unit, but need to allow a bit extra for any problems that may happen."


This is not at all related to the analogy I gave.

Think of it like this. There is a policy at work you have to follow. You disagree with it but ultimately, you have no control over how it works. You have no high authority above your boss or the ones who control the work policy.

The same goes here. Sylvanas is Blizzard's character. They are the ones who created her and write her. You as a player have no control or any type of authority to dictate what she is and who she is as a character.
Sylvanas:
*Slaughters civilians in Silverpine to raise as the dead* Massacre
*Creates and unnecessarily cruel plague and even when things go wrong she keeps it and uses it against the Gilneans, despite her warchief at the time specifically restricting her from using it.* Chemical warfare and treason
*Kills the Desolate Council because some of them wanted to defect, even killing the loyal ones because "their spirits weren't broken," essentially demanding blind loyalty* More massacre
*Torturing Koltira for... liking Thassarian, despite eventually managing to get his mission done against him anyway.* Needlessly cruel and sadistic

Yeah, she's a real anti-hero. None of these are qualities of a villain.
she a rebel with out a coaster
(She just set her drink down just any where)
i'm more against her wasting the resources. i mean, seriously.. there were a crap-ton of corpses and azerite there!... i will say, i AM against sylvana for one other reason *cough* stromgarde *cough*

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