PvP Tuning Oct 10 2018

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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I was sub, they nerfed the !@#$ out of that and outlaw so switched to sin and now K.O. Guess its time to go back to Xbox.
Nothing for Frost DK? You guys better be planning something huge if nothing has been addressed yet
Absolutely love that we got nerfed because people don't know how to counter a rogue. We aren't that powerful haven't been since pre patch. Compared to priests, demon hunters, beastmaster hunters and feral druids... Gotta love that they left the real op classes due to people getting mad at rogues cause they are crappy players.. rmp and rmd are not op due to the rogue... It was the mage damage and the priest healing that made it op. The rogue cc was a simple tool that buffed the other 2 classes in that.
This game is no fun to play when changes happen every week.

*EVERY* *SINGLE* niche I could find to enjoy my class (in PvP), you found a way to destroy. It's like you were targeting enjoyment specifically. First you nerfed Subtlety and its PvP talents, now you nerf Assassination and its PvP talents.

If you made a game with no extremes, nothing superlative, then you get a bland game. If you make certain abilities powerful, then you get a response from the recipient of those abilities -- an "upping" of their game, a brainstorm of solutions, ingenuity. If after some TIME they come up with a solution, then such an ability wasn't so powerful to begin with. The solutions I'm talking about are planning, anticipation, provocation/manipulation, positioning. A game of chess. PvP is about thinking. If you look at just numbers, you won't see the beauty of all of that. You won't see the highs or the lows. You won't see the ingenuity, the struggle, the journey to arrive at that solution.

But you nerf every week. You tune every week. You don't give it time. Give players time to adjust, to struggle, to think of workarounds, especially in PvP.

And yet, THE VERY THINGS YOU NERF ARE THE WORKAROUNDS WE COME UP WITH. You are literally discouraging the ingenuity, brainstorming, and THINKING that makes this game fun for people like me. You nerfed the Sub talent that increases critical strike chance during Shadowdance. If Assassination wasn't balanced then, we might've all switched to Shadowy Duel -- and if 90% of us made THAT work in arena, you'd nerf the hell out of it. But Assassination was balanced, so we played it. Some of us spec'd Vigor (me), but some of us were smarter and spec'd System Shock and Marked for Death, at the cost of Smoke Bomb or Maneuverability. System Shock/Marked for Death caught on, so you nerfed that, too. These things are not terribly overpowered, but everybody seemed to be using it, so you nerfed it.

Your guys' conception of this game is fundamentally different than your players'. Your measure for something being out-of-tune and nerf-worthy is that everybody is using it. But that's entirely !@#-backwards. Players gravitate to solutions because that's what we do: we find the path of least resistance, the path that is most efficient, one that yields the best results. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you're constantly targeting that very tendency by nerfing the very solutions we come up with. How can you or anybody expect a response other than frustration and anger?
10/10/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Saffiya
This game is no fun to play when changes happen every week.

*EVERY* *SINGLE* niche I could find to enjoy my class (in PvP), you found a way to destroy. It's like you were targeting enjoyment specifically. First you nerfed Subtlety and its PvP talents, now you nerf Assassination and its PvP talents.

If you made a game with no extremes, nothing superlative, then you get a bland game. If you make certain abilities powerful, then you get a response from the recipient of those abilities -- an "upping" of their game, a brainstorm of solutions, ingenuity. If after some TIME they come up with a solution, then such an ability wasn't so powerful to begin with. The solutions I'm talking about are planning, anticipation, provocation/manipulation, positioning. A game of chess. PvP is about thinking. If you look at just numbers, you won't see the beauty of all of that. You won't see the highs or the lows. You won't see the ingenuity, the struggle, the journey to arrive at that solution.

But you nerf every week. You tune every week. You don't give it time. Give players time to adjust, to struggle, to think of workarounds, especially in PvP.

And yet, THE VERY THINGS YOU NERF ARE THE WORKAROUNDS WE COME UP WITH. You are literally discouraging the ingenuity, brainstorming, and THINKING that makes this game fun for people like me. You nerfed the Sub talent that increases critical strike chance during Shadowdance. If Assassination wasn't balanced then, we might've all switched to Shadowy Duel -- and if 90% of us made THAT work in arena, you'd nerf the hell out of it. But Assassination was balanced, so we played it. Some of us spec'd Vigor (me), but some of us were smarter and spec'd System Shock and Marked for Death, at the cost of Smoke Bomb or Maneuverability. System Shock/Marked for Death caught on, so you nerfed that, too. These things are not terribly overpowered, but everybody seemed to be using it, so you nerfed it.

Your guys' conception of this game is fundamentally different than your players'. Your measure for something being out-of-tune and nerf-worthy is that everybody is using it. But that's entirely !@#-backwards. Players gravitate to solutions because that's what we do: we find the path of least resistance, the path that is most efficient, one that yields the best results. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you're constantly targeting that very tendency by nerfing the very solutions we come up with. How can you or anybody expect a response other than frustration and anger?


I agree, I demanded a refund and I will stand strong until I receive it by any means.
This base damage nerf was extremely inconsiderate to rogues like me who don't talent into things for the sake of spamming envenom with overpowered twist the knife azerite trait.
They suggested that I provide "in game suggestions" to go right to the developers and completely ignored my question.
By nerfing 6% base damage in assassination instead of the azerite trait which makes envenom overpowered they have totally destroyed our bleed damage and rendered the mastery stat which derives very little total percent, basically worthless.
Going to need my money back for this expansion.
10/10/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Pantsenfuego
How about you stop allowing Prot pallies to do more damage than rogue burst as well as heal on par with most healers. You guys keep dropping melee damage but casters are free to roam....oh wow Frost mages FINALLY got a damage reduction, how about we now focus on the fact that everyone stays constantly slowed while fighting mages in pvp….put their crap on the same DR and CDS as everyone else's slows and stuns. A 4 second sprint ability on a 2 min cd and cloak is hardly even close to being able to deal with a class that can constantly slow and blink twice every 30 sec. Take Bubbles away from Ret pallies while we are at it...BoP, Shield of Vengeance, and Divine shield....ridiculous....but yeah no lets keep reducing other classes abilities and damage.


Exactly, that's just one problem as well but nobody is talking about all of these classes that are ridiculously overpowered such as demon hunters.
Seems some people couldn't balance !@#$ if they had a %^-*ing level to do it with.
10/09/2018 06:00 PMPosted by Ullrick
I told someone yesterday that any time enhance has ever been good in arena, Blizzard immediately nerfs them into oblivion, so do not use a boost on a shaman.

I really saved my friend some grief.


And yet some classes and specs stay OP for entire expansions..... smh
What the !@#$?
Rogues been nerfed every single week feels nice to play a class like that

DH NERFS???

DK BUFFS???
WARLOCK BUFFS???
Where's our buff?
This game is no fun to play when changes happen every week.

*EVERY* *SINGLE* niche I could find to enjoy my class (in PvP), you found a way to destroy. It's like you were targeting enjoyment specifically. First you nerfed Subtlety and its PvP talents, now you nerf Assassination and its PvP talents.

Your guys' conception of this game is fundamentally different than your players'. Your measure for something being out-of-tune and nerf-worthy is that everybody is using it. But that's entirely !@#-backwards. Players gravitate to solutions because that's what we do: we find the path of least resistance, the path that is most efficient, one that yields the best results. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you're constantly targeting that very tendency by nerfing the very solutions we come up with. How can you or anybody expect a response other than frustration and anger?


Eh, no offense but you had to know changes were coming. Everyone who played beta laughed online about how stupid overpowered they were and how rogue specs were going to get hammered because they were so out of balance. Instead of one huge downswing correction, blizzard has been very slowly adjusting them downward.

Rogues are still the #1 DPS specs in PvE. Havoc is up there too as you mentioned in PvE.

But you mentioned pvp : https://www.arenamate.net/representation-charts

Sin represents over 10% of all arena combatants over 2200+. Moreso then even disc the top healing spec ATM. Demonhunter has one DPS spec and it has the same representation as the other two rogue specs combined (outlaw+sub). Even with the changes above, rogues in general are still very likely to be nerfed at least a couple more times in regards to PVE and PVP as they still are highly OP.

I mean nearly a third of all DPS over 2200 play rogues and that number is only going to continue to rise until Rogues stop being OP and start being a relatively average DPS spec. If the nerfs bother you that much already switch to an alt and play a different class spec that isn't likely to be nerfed in the near future.
meanwhile ''HUNTERS EVERYWHERE'' ......
"Class tuning" is a race to the bottom where everybody has the same abilities, nobody has advantages or disadvantages, and everybody eventually unsubscribes.
Well, for future reference. You should go much much much less on nerfs. Every time you nerf something.. that is a group of people that will probably get mad and unsub. Now you know why people are leaving in droves... progressively getting weaker while playing sucks! It's bad enough going from a powerful 110 to a weak 120.. then nerfs on top of that = unsubitis.
10/09/2018 06:10 PMPosted by Raegon
Where are the Warlock and DK updates you all alluded to in the previous post?

I'm imagening a large overhaul for you guys in 8.1, if these classes are as bad as you guys portray them in the forums, then a hotfix would be a waste of time and maybe get in the way of a larger overhaul at a later time period.
Can you buff fury a little make them more viable in 3v3, i love fury so much fun but in 3v3 situations i have to play arms if i want to play with my friends because of ms. Maybe increase damage buff of recklessnes and and give bladestorm baseline? Thanks blizz
-Dailey
you nerf glacial spike by 20%, comet storm by 20%....and refund us 15% frostbolt buff?? what?? have you ever played as a mage in pvp? do you know that frostbolt does no damage, it's literally nothing else than a way to gain procs, like a steady shot. As someone pointed out, people who played this game for 10+ years know it way better than the current developers, what a joke. I bet you watch high level streamers and decide to nerf everyone based on them. how are your subs doing?
Blizzard can you please look at demo warlocks damage in pvp no one wants to play with demo warlocks in pvp because they do 0 dps everything is fine about demo but there damage is lacking in pvp and everyone knows it please take a look
10/10/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Rävên
Absolutely love that we got nerfed because people don't know how to counter a rogue. We aren't that powerful haven't been since pre patch. Compared to priests, demon hunters, beastmaster hunters and feral druids... Gotta love that they left the real op classes due to people getting mad at rogues cause they are crappy players.. rmp and rmd are not op due to the rogue... It was the mage damage and the priest healing that made it op. The rogue cc was a simple tool that buffed the other 2 classes in that.


Ya rogues are having such a tough time being the most represented spec in arena. Man up ladyboy.
This never went live, can it please go live ASAP. Rogue and Shaman still broken in arena.

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