Ion's Q&A from 10/11 and affliction warlocks

Warlock
Anyone else worried about what will happen to affliction warlocks in 8.1

Ion does mention that they plan to beef up affliction survivability which is awesome. However, he goes onto to say that affliction should be more about multi-dotting and less about single target.

I got worried when he mentioned it. It kind of sounds like they plan to nerf single target, but will they actually adequately beef up multi target to make up for it? Or will they just butcher the class Blizzard-style?

In case you missed it, it is located at 33:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoLgP6lUKnY&t=2167s
We just won't know until we see.

Darkglare/Deathbolt are pretty obvious places to hit single target; and Corruption, Agony, and Seed are pretty much the only places to buff cleave/aoe.

I'm also pretty sure Nightfall is PPM, so if that was changed to a flat chance and given a significant damage increase it might be usable on cleave without making ST too good.
I think Affliction should have more power shifted into multi-dotting because I've come to hate how beholden we are to the Deathbolt opener. That's just my personal opinion however. Shadowbolt filler is bland as well. But they haven't given any concrete plan as to what they want to do regarding multi-dotting so if they make any change I really doubt it's going to be in 8.1.
10/16/2018 09:56 PMPosted by Phenomenaut
I think Affliction should have more power shifted into multi-dotting because I've come to hate how beholden we are to the Deathbolt opener. That's just my personal opinion however. Shadowbolt filler is bland as well. But they haven't given any concrete plan as to what they want to do regarding multi-dotting so if they make any change I really doubt it's going to be in 8.1.


Im confused, its legit one sequence then hit it off cd. How is this tied to something?
Most likely Blizz will destroy the class for a tier. We are overperforming in Uldir and Blizz never likes overperforming classes.
Alright, so asking for reverts very rarely, if ever, seems to work.

The closest we got was having Drain Soul and Nightfall in the game again.

That said, what we might want to discuss is ideas of how they could achieve a multidot feel that isn't completely broken. I could perceive a world in which UA refreshed it's timer and added a stack to itself (like Agony, except instead of automatically ticking up, it ticks up as we apply more), or it could be a simple Shard dump, or a combination of both of these. Where it could be dumped in one go or keep stacking up to 5 stacks, and additional casts of one shard refresh the timer. This could allow us to effectively build shards, dump onto one target, tag another with additional shards, and then upkeep both and let one grow while the other is ticking big. With the current design of shard refund this could allow us to keep multiple targets dotted with a full row plus UA.

As for changes to Deathbolt, it's damage needs to be normalized, such that it gets the biggest benefit for having around 4 to 5 dots on the target max. Above that point ends up in a reduction in it's effectiveness such that it results in about the same damage as having 4 to 5 dots. (example would be 100% damage at 1 dot, 85% at 2, 70% at 3, 60% at 4, 55% at 5, important with the proposed UA changes above, it should still equal more at 5 dots than at 1).

Nightfall could benefit from allowing us to stack charges, such that we can store several free ones (thus making it a little less punishing to get procs in the middle of refreshing dots or to save for movement). Also, it would benefit from some shard production to pair with the proposed UA changes (getting multiple targets fully stacked with a 5 shard UA dump is far better than slowly tagging them up per production).

Drain Soul too could strongly benefit from more consistent non death of a target production (also to go with the proposed UA stack changes and such).

UA stacking too should have the same kind of effect as Deathbolt, such that the first stack is doing more damage, and subsequent stacks add less, but the effect of a 5 stack feels strong.

These ideas are just that, ideas. They could work with tuning perhaps, but we need more different ideas of things that haven't been tried and failed already. Some way to generate lots of dots for many targets without simply spreading like MoP or WoD. Soulburn is an ability I really liked, and spreading dots quickly with it and Swap seemed to make sense, but we can see that it was not popular with the current devs and not likely to return. Honestly, Swap felt cumbersome with multiple presses to achieve what many other specs do with one button. They have a good example of a strictly better way to dot multiple targets in Vile Taint, but it's sadly in the talent tree and competing with Singularity which is just too good to pass on.
10/17/2018 01:32 AMPosted by Mordecaí
Affliction sucks !@#. Real locks play demo.
Nonsense.

Real de Locks de dealt de with de real de mechanics life tap.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they pull another Legion, and end up making Aff the undisputed kings of everything with little to no point in playing any other Warlock spec ever (unless you have will like iron like me and just play the spec you find fun and not the one you don't enjoy but is the statistical best spec)

No king lives forever, right?
The most dissapointing aspect really, is that they're WAITING FOR 8.1 to give our class a chance at PvP. Not even a !@#$ing % armor hotfix for the time being or something, nah just wait some months before u pvp guys lolool.
just reroll 4Head LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
10/16/2018 10:12 PMPosted by Lifiane
10/16/2018 09:56 PMPosted by Phenomenaut
I think Affliction should have more power shifted into multi-dotting because I've come to hate how beholden we are to the Deathbolt opener. That's just my personal opinion however. Shadowbolt filler is bland as well. But they haven't given any concrete plan as to what they want to do regarding multi-dotting so if they make any change I really doubt it's going to be in 8.1.


Im confused, its legit one sequence then hit it off cd. How is this tied to something?


Simply the ridiculous power of it. Deathbolt crits can see you spiking near 100k DPS. Too much damage is confined within that tiny window.
do you see how hard turbo cleave is hitting people right now? Do you think 15% stamina and some armor is going to matter? I’m not usually this negative but the biggest warlock buff blizzard could give us is enhance shaman and rogue nerfs. I’ve been leveling a moonkin until warlocks get buffed and holy smokes, the utility, the mobility, the damage, the off heals, druids literally have EVERYTHING, which leads me to believe the dev team actually does hate locks, or they really really love druids.
Most times, when you make aff do too well on a single target scenario, it will be top spec overall, as it has been, just caught by destro buffs last weeks.

Aff HAS not to be ideal on one scenario so it will excel on council fights.

it will probably be a nerf overall, but will mean a more balanced spec to play M+s (you don't go there just to melt the bosses).

If aff is stron on single target, it means that even without much movement we are able to do dmg. Meaning, when everyone has to move, we still have lots of instants.
At first I missed my Aoe and multi dotting - But i've honestly grown to love my single target damage and being this burst machine that just melts boss's -

I really don't want that to change :
What I want is to see nightfall and drainsoul provide the same level and benefit that deathbolt does -
That way I can pick the one that modifies my play style but allows me to do the same level of damage.
I don't want to see haunt + sb + db mandatory.

If we can achieve a gameplay where you switch between DS and SB depending on fight type, have SE work multitarget (last longer? be applied with corruption? - so you can apply it with SoC - idk), leave haunt for pure single...

There are things that could be changed in aff to make it less clunky/opener dependent.
10/17/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Jaffriction
do you see how hard turbo cleave is hitting people right now? Do you think 15% stamina and some armor is going to matter?


I really dont think people get it, honestly.

Affliction's DoTs are utter weaksauce (1k damage Corruption ticks... Agony not hitting for more than 1k till the back 4...) and we have ZERO utility and no tank.

And Melee are hitting for 20k a global. You really think getting that reduced to "only" 18k per global is going to make a difference?

Be real, people.
Well you see, the next raid tier is going to have a few multidot-friendly boss fights, so it's important that Blizzard buffs aff's multidotting to ensure it continues to be the best spec in the game
10/17/2018 01:47 PMPosted by Aesa
Well you see, the next raid tier is going to have a few multidot-friendly boss fights, so it's important that Blizzard buffs aff's multidotting to ensure it continues to be the best spec in the game


Absolutely! While I know you are being silly here, the simple truth is that the issues with Affliction stem from being tied to all the % modifiers and juggling those perfectly along with some good RNG to not be targeted by the enemy abilities during burst phases (opener and pooled shard/CD dump during Lust later).

If they were to remove % bonuses from UA, Haunt, and Shadow Embrace we would be better off for it. They could then improve the flat damage from Haunt and have Shadow Embrace empower every Shadowbolt stacking X times. This would scale with haste as we would get full dots stacked faster having more time for Shadowbolt casts. Inversely, it would scale with more passive talent selections, effectively making the difference between best performing and worst performing specs much smaller.
10/17/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Jaffriction
do you see how hard turbo cleave is hitting people right now? Do you think 15% stamina and some armor is going to matter? I’m not usually this negative but the biggest warlock buff blizzard could give us is enhance shaman and rogue nerfs. I’ve been leveling a moonkin until warlocks get buffed and holy smokes, the utility, the mobility, the damage, the off heals, druids literally have EVERYTHING, which leads me to believe the dev team actually does hate locks, or they really really love druids.


The disparity between moonkins and warlocks right now is nothing short of hilarious. A moonkin is just a STRICTLY superior affliction warlock.

Damage? Moonkins hit harder, more consistently, and are more difficult to shut down.

Mobility? Travel form and powershifting beat out port and gate with room to spare.

Kill pressure? Incarn beats drain life soundly, along with general ability to burst in the interim with starsurges. Not to mention the ability to chase and secure kills.

Utility? Well, aff has LITERALLY none. Moonkins have offheals and decurse.

Control? Yeah right. Cyclone is 100 times over a stronger CC than fear. Warlock fear is debatably the worst CC in the game, while moonkin cyclone is debatably the strongest. Undebatably, the two are eons apart in strength. Moonkin also gets bash or root beam for instant CC. Affliction has zero instant CC, because we cannot count coil.

Survivability? Don't make me !@#$ing laugh. This one doesn't even need to be mentioned.
I feel dots don’t do enough and DB does too much. Me personally I don’t like to play by DB and it just doesn’t seem all that exciting to me. So maybe get the in between and balance it. So just nerf DB and buff dots maybe that issue but who knows. Ion figure it out. Aff should have decent st not great just like great aoe and not average.

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