Shadow Priest Changes in 8.1

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Just played the ptr for a while and have to say this will definitely change the base talents that most of us have been using so far. Legacy of the void/lingering insanity with the 5% increase damage buff feels like it will be the go to for raiding now imo. Void torrent and s2m still feel utterly useless. Dark ascension is probably going to be more situational now, maybe for m+ to decrease ramp time or in mass aoe fights where void eruption is relevant. It still does not address pretty much any of the spriest complaints though and for single target after the flat 3% damage decrease modifier still feels horriiibbbllleeeee. Needs to be something to boost st numbers because it just feels absolutely terrible even with single target talents. And swp drops way too often. Just feels completely off.
Note - We are currently missing an entire PVP talent on PTR. (Pure Shadow)

So it stands to reason we will be getting something.

Or will we just have 10? Do any classes only have 10?

hmm.
Can VE be a leech aura similar to the old BDK ability in legion?

Just rather annoying when VE needs to be used and it is on the wrong part of the cycle
10/23/2018 09:41 PMPosted by Maybeitsroxx

I made a DH got it to about 341 and it completely destroys my spriest in dungeons no contest running demonic build with fel barrage. Single target its pretty close to my 361 priest and I expect at 345 it will be atleast 1k higher after the proposed numbers tuning.


Inorite?

I'll use an even simpler example, one we can all test. I do 5.5k single-target DPS when I'm disc. 4.5k when I'm holy. I do 6.5k single-target DPS when I'm shadow, maybe 7k with some lucky procs. Should my damage spec only deal 20% more dps than my healing spec?

I'm sure you've all experienced what I'm about to say.

My current goal as shadow in M+ or timewalking is not to do respectable DPS. No. Nothing so lofty. It is to beat the tank's DPS, which frequently does not happen with a Vengeance (spirit bomb) or Brewmaster (keg smash), heaven forbid a prot pally popping wings on a big trash pull.

In island expeditions, I go in as disc and get matched with another healing class. They ask me to go shadow and I tell them, "the survivability reduction isn't worth 1k dps."

Good grief, Blizzard. I haven't seen balancing this awful since the first nine months of WotLK, when an optimal 10-man raid was eight DKs and two holy paladins. Hunters, affliction, multiple rogue specs, arms... All are beating the bottom DPS specs by 30% or more.

Can someone please explain to me in words a five-year-old can understand why class balancing corrections must be tied to new raid content? Is there a logical reason besides forcing players to reroll the current flavor of the patch?
The new changes are definitely a net buff, even with the aura nerf. The longer VF make the rotation feel better. I agree, however, that Blizz just ignored most of the major issues with the spec. They didn't even do everything they said in their post - I'm still wondering where the utility is they said they were improving. . .

However, if it took them several months to come up with these changes, I'd say nothing significant until at least 9.0. They don't listen to feedback, and don't play the spec, so no way for them to figure out what to do.
I really like vf so this is welcome, glad to get focused will
10/23/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Nerdheart
I do 6.5k single-target DPS when I'm shadow, maybe 7k with some lucky procs.


This isn't a Shadow problem. It's a gear and, dare I say, player problem.

With 373 equipped, I do 10.5k minimum on a ST boss even with aoe talents. I'll do 12k overall on a run, very often topping damage against mages and rogues. Even if I don't top, I'm never far behind, and I'm never struggling even to beat the tank.

This is the problem with community-driven whine-fests. People start attributing their shortcomings to the class itself, when the reality is there's plenty of room to grow in gear and skill first, even if the class really is on the weak side.

Is the rotation a bit weaksauce? Yeah, sure. But the numbers are very close.
Spriest gonna do well in PvP content, doubt this will change much for the pve side.
10/24/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Annesh
With 373 equipped, I do 10.5k minimum on a ST boss even with aoe talents. I'll do 12k overall on a run, very often topping damage against mages and rogues. Even if I don't top, I'm never far behind, and I'm never struggling even to beat the tank.
The numbers are there with optional gear, especially for a raid setting. But the gameplay issues, particularly involving Voidform in dungeons (or non-raid environments) are needing attention.
10/24/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Annesh
10/23/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Nerdheart
I do 6.5k single-target DPS when I'm shadow, maybe 7k with some lucky procs.


This isn't a Shadow problem. It's a gear and, dare I say, player problem.

With 373 equipped, I do 10.5k minimum on a ST boss even with aoe talents. I'll do 12k overall on a run, very often topping damage against mages and rogues. Even if I don't top, I'm never far behind, and I'm never struggling even to beat the tank.


Beating mages and rogues of the same ilvl? If that happens it is your mages and rogues that are a bad-player problem.

Perhaps you should have read my previous post which indicated my priest is ilvl 352. I have no doubt another 21 ilvls will get me to more than 10.5k dps. I also have no doubt my DH at ilvl 373 would do at least 15k on single targets and over 25k on the pre-Zul trash packs.

The real question is this: Where can I find a guild that will carry me to ilvl 373 on a shadow priest? Let me guess. You didn't get there playing shadow, did you?
I just played around with the new changes in the PTR and I'm not impressed. They say they want longer voidforms, but the changes are too minor to really make much of a difference.

The longest voidform I got was 32 stacks and that was with using Void Torrent and Shadow Fiend on a target dummy. In any normal encounter, with all the movement, I still see us hanging around the 22-25 stacks range.

Do note, my haste is a bit on the lower end (15% outside of uldir), so mileage may vary, but compared to live, I'm not noticing much of a difference in the feel/rotation/length of voidform.

One of the things that's potentially killing voidform uptime is the god awful synchronicity of the SWP and VT durations. The only way I could avoid having to refresh my dots mid-voidform was to recast both dots before void eruption, even if they had a decent amount of duration left on them. The spec still feels clunky and there are still some core mechanical issues with the class that these current changes do nothing to address.
I am happy with the changes.
I know these all are a bandaid for lost arm, but it stops bleeding until 9.0. Hopefully there will be full-scope rework with Voidform removal.

At least I can play my Shadow now and not feel bad for doing that.
I expected nothing and I'm still disappointed.
So it sounds like the changes don't really do anything. The aura nerf makes it appear that they believe Shadow is fine damage-wise, so they're trying to just shuffle numbers around which is what usually happens. Perhaps number-wise we are fine, but the way our damage is distributed and our methods for applying it are...in short, not fun. Ultimately I was hoping that whatever changes we'd be getting would go towards making the spec more fun, but that hasn't happened here. :(
10/24/2018 02:52 AMPosted by Ptrreports
I am happy with the changes.
I know these all are a bandaid for lost arm, but it stops bleeding until 9.0. Hopefully there will be full-scope rework with Voidform removal.

At least I can play my Shadow now and not feel bad for doing that.

A band-aid that took 131 days be announced.
9.0 seems woefully hopeful at this rate of class updating unless Blizzard can actually answer why class balance is so tough for Shadow Priests, and then cut out that reason like a cancer before the patient dies and rework it.

We shouldn't have to feel bad about playing our favourite Avatars... Blizzard should feel bad they are disappointing players and NOT TAKE 5 MONTHS from when Ion said they will fix it to release of 8.1.
10/24/2018 04:27 AMPosted by Dirtymind
10/24/2018 02:52 AMPosted by Ptrreports
I am happy with the changes.
I know these all are a bandaid for lost arm, but it stops bleeding until 9.0. Hopefully there will be full-scope rework with Voidform removal.

At least I can play my Shadow now and not feel bad for doing that.

A band-aid that took 131 days be announced.
9.0 seems woefully hopeful at this rate of class updating unless Blizzard can actually answer why class balance is so tough for Shadow Priests, and then cut out that reason like a cancer before the patient dies and rework it.

We shouldn't have to feel bad about playing our favourite Avatars... Blizzard should feel bad they are disappointing players and NOT TAKE 5 MONTHS from when Ion said they will fix it to release of 8.1.


I agree with you in every single point. Still, I am not the one to force Blizz to commit to the mistakes. I wish it happened, but I would rather be nice, report bugs, give my feedback and wait. With provided changes I feel Shadow will be "ok". Currently it just feels bad to play it.
I can live with that till 9.0. If 9.0 will not fix the issues everybody is aware of, I will move on to another game, where I can find dark-themed caster without pet.
10/23/2018 11:48 PMPosted by Moonshayde
The new changes are definitely a net buff, even with the aura nerf. The longer VF make the rotation feel better. I agree, however, that Blizz just ignored most of the major issues with the spec. They didn't even do everything they said in their post - I'm still wondering where the utility is they said they were improving. . .

However, if it took them several months to come up with these changes, I'd say nothing significant until at least 9.0. They don't listen to feedback, and don't play the spec, so no way for them to figure out what to do.


Well and only problem I noticed is it only seems like a net buff in aoe situations. Stipp doesn't feel like we really have a great way to spec into single target. Feels like something is missing like a certain devouring plague haha.
As I had posted in Annesh's thread I will copy here in the hopes that the development team can read and understand the issues, while also recognising how player can feel frustration.

While these proposed changes will absolutely improve the spec in a raiding environment, maybe even PVP. We're back the very same issues we have in Legion with under-representation in M+ because of a mechanic.

While on the subject of tuning (of which I had italicized above), these tuning changes to Voidform could have easily been placed in game on release, or even in the pre-raid tuning. Instead, we received complete silence.

Being told that Shadow was incomplete months ago gave players hope that in the time leading up to now, that the numerous issues that Shadow has, may be looked at. While it was only stated that they might be able to do something to improve upon the spec, along with the silence, absolutely gave mixed signals to various players. Even when Shadow was locked out of the PTR because of Voidform, mixed signals were assumed, and communication was not even given to correct these assumptions until yesterday's post, which at time of typing, is up to 16 pages.

continued...

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