Shadow Priest Changes in 8.1

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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10/24/2018 09:03 AMPosted by Signey
P.p.s. Get rid of the obnoxious vape cloud in shadow form. The glyph isn't good enough.


This please!
10/24/2018 09:03 AMPosted by Signey


If I'm reading the ptr changes correctly, spriest is going to get greater fade, which is going to make it difficult to just train the priest the entire game. Our defensive toolkit is looking pretty solid (still wtb void tendrils).

P.s. Obligatory "Blizz get rid of voidform" comment.

P.p.s. Get rid of the obnoxious vape cloud in shadow form. The glyph isn't good enough.


You're right. I found out about greater fade shortly after I posted my comment, which actually leaves me feeling pretty phenomenal about the changes. I still think the new edge will kinda miss the mark but greater fade is going to be really amazing, especially against turbo.
Reports on PTR is you can extend shadow form by a few more seconds. Doesn't this conflict with devs statement

"Make Voidform matter more, make staying in Voidform longer matter more, and give the player more agency over extending its duration"

I mean these things can be tweaked further, and should be, but I think many of us fear this is basically peak of fixes we are getting this expansion. They are not really fixes.. just number tweaking which seems to have changed very little at this point.
10/24/2018 08:50 AMPosted by Oprawr
10/22/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Netherspike
God I wish voidform would just go.


10/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Female
Shadow priests: "Get rid of Voidform!"
Blizzard: *Makes it "matter" more*.


This.. wtaf blizzard, how low can you drop the ball?


WHY?!?! Why is this so??? This snippet needs more like ladies and gentlemen!
10/24/2018 06:41 AMPosted by Loblo
I'd kind of prefer if Dispersion was a shorter cooldown, high mobility, less defensive type move. Something like 60 second cooldown, 7 second duration, 50% move speed, 50% damage reduction.

In the past, arena play against spriest has boiled down to "force the dispersion and then swallow the shadow priest" and I think that is only going to be even worse now. Since without Edge we are going to be using our voidform again in pvp (and now voidform is our tanky stance) we're just going to get chain cc'd through void form and popped the moment we are out of it. I suspect the dispersion talent will become mandatory to reduce the cooldown but as a result we are not EVER going to be able to move.

Mania should probably be reintroduced as a baseline passive to give us a little bit of mobility / reason to not be in shadow form. Patch notes read like arena spriest are going to have to dump voidform whenever possible for the damage buff and reduction but we are going to be totally limp outside of it, completely immobile, and if dispersion is on CD, we're going to die in a stun.


I desperately want EoI and Mania to stay with us in some form. I deeply appreciated being able to forgo voidform. I especially appreciated forgoing voidform for additional tankiness. 8.1 is going to rip this play style from me. Shadow has a lot of problems, but this voidless tank playstyle was what kept me subbed.
I don't mind either version of shadow, I just want the rotation to feel more fluid and to not feel completely hopeless in dungeons.
uhh thanks for the buffs, but this doesn't address the specs problems, it more just buffs our dmg meters, which are at the same time being brought back down by coI being nerfed by almost 50%.

The spec still plays exactly the same... why did we wait 4 months for a change that boils down to a hotfix dmg buff, especailly when fixing the class is as easy as

Make sw D baseline

Make sw V baseline


These two things should have happened a long time ago I don't care if you would have to take dmg out of other areas to make overall dmg the same, it would make the spec so much more enjoyable to play

Edit: although the halucinations thing was a nice qol touch that while nobody asked for, I appreciate.
Just in case they're actually looking for feedback and going to take action on it (not getting my hopes up) here's the deal breaker for me and shadow:

If Shadow isn't competitive in situations where the ramp is happening nonstop, where we're constantly falling out of voidform as we move or have nothing to attack, then they are going to be garbage at Mythic+. None of these changes fix this problem. Until that problem is fixed you have failed.
10/24/2018 01:56 PMPosted by Nyhlia
Just in case they're actually looking for feedback and going to take action on it (not getting my hopes up) here's the deal breaker for me and shadow:

If Shadow isn't competitive in situations where the ramp is happening nonstop, where we're constantly falling out of voidform as we move or have nothing to attack, then they are going to be garbage at Mythic+. None of these changes fix this problem. Until that problem is fixed you have failed.


Yea I'd have to agree. And that's the general problem with voidform/why it needs to go. You put too much power inside vf and being outside of it/mechanics are too punishing. Put too little power in voidform and it doesn't feel impactful and is unfulfilling to play. And the haste gain mechanic/ insanity drain is a nightmare to balance damage around. It creates too much of a discrepancy between those who have perfect secondaries and those who do not, which is against the class design philosophy they talked about over and over entering bfa.

I really hope there are more changes. Because if this is all they are willing to do, then that's scary how out of touch they are.
10/24/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Neer
Reports on PTR is you can extend shadow form by a few more seconds. Doesn't this conflict with devs statement

"Make Voidform matter more, make staying in Voidform longer matter more, and give the player more agency over extending its duration"

I mean these things can be tweaked further, and should be, but I think many of us fear this is basically peak of fixes we are getting this expansion. They are not really fixes.. just number tweaking which seems to have changed very little at this point.


Its a few seconds, max. It does nothing for agency and the reality is that you would only get those few seconds in a patchwork style fight.

I might be alone in this opinion but there is too much to mange with shadow as it stands, and when you add in mechanics for a boss fight it just becomes a cluster !@#$. Having to watch the dot timers now, the cool downs for void bolt and mindblast/SW:V, bender, DA, void eruption, and while all thats going on you have the added pressure to stay in voidform as long as possible, with the conflicting cooldowns of voidbolt/MB/SW:V.

There is no flow to the playstyle. Its a clunky, unenjoyable mess if youre aiming for maximum dps output. And it doesnt feel rewarding if you do somehow reach peak dps, its just a small amount of relief from the pressure applied to the player by the gameplay of shadow, but then it begins all over again.

In legion it was almost guaranteed if you popped bender at 30 stacks you would reach high 40's and that was enough to provide the boost in dps to achieve top middle, and it was enjoyable. If you strove for perfection you could reach mid 50's to 60 seconds of void form and the effort you put in was rewarded. The casts were rapid, numbers were popping everywhere on the screen, it was god damn exciting!

And then bfa turned up................
I'd much rather see us get Spectral Guise instead of Greater Fade. Giving Spriest an immunity on top of a reduced CD of dispersion just sounds like potential annoying gameplay.

Being able to slip out of sight for a few seconds (or less since it breaks) seems much better.
Really, I don't think we can expect void form to be gone in BfA. Any changes that can't be done over someone's lunch break aren't in the cards. That said, a few things I'd like them to consider:

SW:V - baseline.

SW:D - baseline (or, even move it to replace SW:V if it went baseline)

New AoE talent to replace SW:D - maybe something that spreads Vampiric Touch

Mania - baseline. Shadow needs some sort of mobility baseline.

Have insanity build to 50% out of combat to help with ramp

Void tendrils - slow targets hit. Sooo tired of mobs beating on me.

Focused Will - stack 2 times. I'm not a healer, I need better defensives when doing world content.

Shadow Form - make it less smokey, please, especially with the glyph.
Make Shadow Word: Death baseline like it has for 10 years.
There is a lot of potential for meaningful change for shadow priest.
I find it odd that you fix the boring overlap for fury warrior and completely ignore the same problem priest is having. Raging blow and mind blast are very similar.
To those that like voidform, did you get a chance to play MoP/WoD demonology? Would 9.0 Voidform working closer to that type of mechanic be more welcome (I can already hear the baying and curses from the warlock forum)

IMO its a much more elegant solution to a stance/resource mechanic, but if its purely developer hubris in reinventing the most square wheel on the market I can understand reluctance.
Hi all, so I downloaded the ptr and jumped on to my shadow priest after seeing the changes. I like the changes, I mainly play this game from a pvp standpoint and as such my feedback will be based on pvp balance.

As I mentioned I believe that the changes made so far are good and in the right direction, one thing that has become glaringly obvious however is damage.

I understand the game isnt based on 1v1 duels, I do however have a problem with a statement you made stating that void form needs to matter more. To make it matter more you gave it a 10% damage buff.

I was dueling a feral druid, a boomkin and a vengeance DH. The dh I couldnt get below 90% health. The boomkin and feral druid also was unable to get them below 3/4 health.

I'm ok with this. They may be better then me and I can accept that.

What I cant accept though is when I have all dots on my target, my pet, psyfiend... using void form and void bolting and mind blasting and it makes little to no dent in their health.

Shadow priest damage just still isnt where it needs to be. On a training dummy the difference from live to the ptr was laughable. 7.9k dps to 8.3k dps. From a pvp stand point it just feels like there is no punch behind any of your abilities.

My dot damage is laughable. If I only put my dots on someone it barely does anything. I can literally sit there watching my dots and it feels like a dps classes health regens faster then they damage.

Don't get me wrong survivability for shadow on the ptr is the best it has been in a long time. But what is the point of being a damage class when you cant hurt anything. Its disheartening to say the least.

Anyway this is my opinion and I just feel shadow needs a damage buff. Make our dots feel impactful, make people want to dispel them because if they don't they will hurt.

It feels like shadow is a class only there to do control. You don't bring a priest for damage at the moment that's for sure.

I'm not the best, I don't claim to be.

/end rant
I'm thankful for the buffs, because let's face it, they're better than nothing. But I'd have to agree with just about most of the posters in here - we need fixes to our rotation and gameplay, not a numbers tuning pass.

1. SW: Void / MB at 2 charges should be baseline. This solves a large portion of the problems with our rotation within Voidform. Reduce their individual damage somewhat to compensate

2. SW: Death needs to be baseline again. No need to explain this really. This was an iconic spell, and helps us get our niche back again.

3. Fix the talent trees. AOE talents crash with single target. DOT spread talents crash with insanity generation.... Mobility with defensive.

Longer changes:
4. Mindbender baseline. Talent increases duration by 15 seconds and makes him cast void bolts at your target that also do dot extensions.

5. Make void bolt dot extension the same as legion. This will also solve the fluidity problems of the spec.
Or don't need to make the Mindbender changes and this dot extension change.

4. Shadow Crash baseline. Every time you deal damage with Mind blast, it reduces the cooldown of Shadow Crash by X seconds.

5. Give mind flay the dot extension treatment while in void form.

Most importantly and nothing at all related to the spec's performance:
Please communicate with us on how you feel about the flow of the spec and the playstyle. Do a few back and forths in this thread. The good players are giving you plenty of feedback but need some comments from your side of the table. Please help us in this.
The excitement for Classic WoW caused me re-sub so I can wet my fingers and experience the game again after having quit during the Cata expansion. The changes to classes by removal of talent trees and forcing class specs was questionable, and the spells/abilities pruning sadden me. I adjusted, but still think it was a poor decision overall.

Then I tried leveling as a Shadow Priest in BFA, and that was the most god awful experience in recent gaming history. The interest in Void Form (having been new to me) quickly faded to annoyance and loathing since our big AoE is tied to activating Void Form. The spec in general plays like hot garbage with abilities overlapping each other. Then having the survivability of a piece of wet tissue paper due to the scaling of mobs in BFA, I ended up having to play disc to level.

While I didn't have to wait as long as others did for changes to the shadow spec since I rejoined early September, and most have waited since BFA beta, I have to say that those are some half-arsed changes that amounts to very little. Over 4 months people have waited, and it looks like people were given changes brought to you by an intern who was bored while sitting on the toilet.

I've seen this before with Blizzard. Blizzard is given tons of feedback from the community and is often times ignored, which obviously has happened here. And when there are no major changes to a class/spec during the "class pass through", the chances of it happening later is slim. So fat chance anything meaningful will happen to Shadow Priest till 9.0.

With the mediocre changes to Shadow and the slew of Disc nerfs because melee couldn't solo priests 1v1 I went ahead and discontinued my sub. I'll just have to hold off till Classic to play Priest again.
"Shadow Word: Death" needs to become a baseline spell again. These PTR changes should have been balanced with this idea in mind beforehand.

Please elect a game designer to maintain some level of communication with shadow priest players, whether it's on the forum or Twitter. It doesn't feel great to rely on one phrase per Q&A video (if shadow is even brought up), and have our concerns largely off the perceived development agenda.
As EU forums are dead.

The issue I'm having with Shadow Priest is the Insanity drain part.

there is long history of bosses/encounters where it just doen't work out.

Couple of examples;

Legion Dungeons

Black Rook Hold - Datalionax - Phases away.
Maw of Souls - Helya - Phases away.
Neltharion's lair - Ularogg - Phases away.
Karazhan - Viz'aduum - Jumps platforms.
Arcway - Advisor Vandros - Phases away.
Vault of the Wardens - Cordana/Glazer - Phases - Voidform becomes useless. (though for these can start again with max insanity at least)

Legion Raids
Emerald Nightmare - Elerethe - When the boss jumped mid voidform, you'd have to use a feather (provided by encounter to fly) and dispersion to make it back to the boss again to have a target to generate on.
Nighthold - Tichondruis - Phases - Mind Sear was removed at this point - Good luck trying to maintain insanity thoughout this phase.
Nighthold - Elisande - Phases, drain starts earlier than she gets active again.
Trial of Valor - Odyn - Kill the Guardians, Odyn does some nice RP before you can attack and you see your insanity drain away.
Tomb of Sargaras - Sisters of the Moon - phases, pending on your current Voidform stacks you where screwed or not. differse every fight since it was based on percentage.
Tomb of Sargaras - Maiden - Jumps to the other side of the room, so not in range to generate.
Antorus - Garothi - getting stunned - drain keeps going.
Antorus - High Command - Boss 1 goes, takes a couple of seconds for Boss 2 to spawn.
Antorus - Portal Keeper - I guess if you look at your Raid Leader with puppy eyes you can stay down.
Antorus - Imonar - Do I even need to explain this one?

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So with all these examples, How was decided insanity drain would be a good feature to keep?

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Battle for Azeroth dungeons

King's Rest - Mchimba the Embalmer - Entomb - You can guess, insanity keeps draining.
Shrine of the Storm - Aqua Man/Aqu'sirr - Phases - during that time you can watch your resource drain away.
Temple of Sethraliss - Merektha - 1. the stun. (thanks Human Racial for this one) 2. Mr. Boss man goes for a "swim". You kill the adds. than you can watch your insanity drain away. while Mr. Boss Man is still happy swimming.
Underrot - Cragmaw - "just follow him during Tantrum" ooooor I should I just go for the bloods instead?
Tol'Dagir - The Sand Queen - Another boss that goes away.
Waycrest Manor - Soulbound Goliath - stun. (again thanks Human Racial)

Battle for Azeroth Raid(s)

MOTHER - Wind Tunnel - Void Bolt, maybe a Mind Blast/Shadow Word: Void if you start on the right side of the wind, Otherwise it just becomes Void Bolt, spam Shadow Word: Pain till Void Bolt is ready again. (plays even more fun than typing it!)
Fetid - Stomp - "just get a better position towards a wall" - getting a knockback to Pandaria and out of range to generate.
Vectis - Fun boss, when he is up. The other part where you see your target disappear (yet again) and watch your insanity drain away.
Mythrax - Oblivion Spheres - MY FAVORITE! Getting charmed, you can't even use dispersion for this one to save your resource from draining.

Bonus

Battle of Dazar'alor

Saw some raidtesting Video where you get teleported to one side of the area, and you can run all the way back avoiding a lot of Ring of Peace. I'm just thinking out loud here, but I'm going to assume, my Void Bolt will not be in range to generate insanity, or Dispersion's 6 sec +50% speedbuff will be enough.

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Point being. This mechanic has clearly a major flaw. it was clearly visable in Legion. so why is it still here? time/cost to develop this vs the time this is used?

I'm aware for alot of what I'm describing there is "you can use dispersion". Point to this is, Dispersion is in my view used as an ability to prevent me from dieing/taking damage, not to let me keep my resources due poor design.

Next to that I'm also aware I shouldn't compare to other classes "strenghts/weaknesses etc" but would just want to point out, that there is no forgiveness period in insanity drain, where other classes do have such in place. For my example I'm sticking to the other clothies, Like a mage with a Fingers of Frost proc that lasts +10 sec

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