Shadow Priest Changes in 8.1

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bad changes, void form design is bad for pvp, it will always lead to 'pve' matches
10/22/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Newronka
How about fixing Marksman Hunters PvE and trickshot stuff. Or there is still policy we do not want you to play Marks in play :D


Did you miss the Marksman changes they announced like a week ago? There was an entire post, longer than this, about MM specifically for 8.1.
A step in the right direction, although it seems like shadow priest is going to become more immortal than it already is in arena, and not to mention that most of the issue with the class stems from rotation, clunkyness, and poorly designed talent rows and i feel like buffing void bolt dmg and reducing some of the drain isn't really a major fix.
Blizzard:
Voidform increases spell damage by 20% (up from 10%)

Also Blizzard:
Additionally, no longer requires Voidform to cast

Just think about that one for a sec.

I'm glad we are looking at some changes to the spec, but quite honestly this feels like a strange form of numbers tuning that wasn't really thought out and won't change much about the currently clunky play style that we have.
Elemental, Enhance and Shadow Priest were all mentioned as specs you guys weren't satisfied with at launch. Ele and Spriest have now received some big changes in 8.1. Is anything in the pipeline for Enh or will we continue to be the redheaded stepchild of the entire game?
Well I like Voidform. It remembers me of my Warlock's Metamorphosis that was taken away.

You know, the gameplay of generating power until you become a dark behemoth, then spending such power until you become "weak" again. It's a neat feeling - I'm like Cho'gall, wreaking havoc until Insanity consumes me.

10/22/2018 07:42 PMPosted by Slamitnerd
Elemental, Enhance and Shadow Priest were all mentioned as specs you guys weren't satisfied with at launch. Ele and Spriest have now received some big changes in 8.1. Is anything in the pipeline for Enh or will we continue to be the redheaded stepchild of the entire game?

Don't be dramatic. Enhancement has a unique but viable playstyle, it's the community who listens too much to streamers and don't invit enhc. They are cool. Not in a dire state at all. They need work, but no need for this "I'm the readheaded stepchild".
10/22/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Seph
A new talent Intangibility replaces Mania (which was similar to and far less popular than Body and Soul), and reduces Dispersion’s cooldown by 25% and causes it to heal you for 50% of your maximum health over its duration.

I am known as a major advocator for Mania. I simply do not like pressing a non-damaging global in order to move. The fact that insanity drain has been reduced in Voidform and insanity gen increased, through Void Bolt, makes me believe that Mania would be the more popular talent with these changes.

The two talents might be similar in concept, but Mania provides a higher ceiling to maximize movement through stutter-stepping. This design is core to how Shadow plays and if it is removed, I believe it should be added as a baseline passive with a lesser effect.
Honestly, I can't get my head around this. Like, you guys KNOW why Voidform is a problem. You just said it:

10/22/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Seph
This had some positive impacts, which many of you are aware of – mainly this greatly reduced the harsh penalty for dropping out of Voidform early – a common occurrence in any content outside of raids, including dungeons or questing.


When Voidform is important, Voidform is an albatross-- it's an idea that can only ever be fully realized in very long encounters, generally raid bosses that don't have a lot of movement. Voidform is a liability. Voidform is a noose around the neck of this specialization, limiting design space and strangling the player experience in favor of an admittedly cool idea that has not panned out like I think anyone has hoped.

If this is a bandage, a stop-gap measure until 9.0 allows you to revamp shadow into a specialization that can exist outside of very specific circumstances, hell-- just say it. If there's one thing that BFA has proved, it's that communication from the developers to the players needs to be more open, frank, and illustrative of what your long term vision of this game and its constituent components actually is.
warlocks?
Doubling down on voidform, not deleting s2m, reintroducing an artifact passive. Looks like you guys worked hard on shadow the past 2-3 months. Lets hope shadow is fun in 9.0 at least.
Seriously... That's it?

So PvE wise you increased our damage and gave us the ability to stay in voidform longer....

But you completely ignored:
- Why is Shadow Word: Death still a talent?
- easy fixable issues with Mindblast cooldowns/conflicts
- tons of dead/useless talents that don't make sense or conflict
- our 3 button rotation that uses spells that don't have any synergy or interaction with one another
- the issue that most of our AoE is tied to going into voidform (which will now happen less often if VF last longer)
- our dots are still very weak and will be an even smaller percentage of our damage

Added on to that, instead of giving us something reasonable for movement, we now have the choice between spamming PW:S for a puny movement buff, or silencing ourselves and wasting a defensive cooldown for one...

I feel like an idiot that I was holding out a faint hope that you guys actually understood what makes a class fun to play and wanted shadow to be enjoyable again.
Thanks for an update, but....

Please redistribute some of Void Eruption's damage to Mind Sear and/or DoTs. +10% spell power is not enough to stop the degenerate playstyle of dropping Voidform ASAP in order to get another Void Eruption for AoE. (Or, ideally, something like: Void Eruption separated from Void Bolt, Void Bolt now activates Void Form, and Void Eruption now has has a cooldown that recharges 300% faster while Voidform is active.)

Please give Mind Blast 2 charges baseline. This is your quote about Fury Warrior:
[Raging Blow] having 2 charges baseline felt better, as a version with either a 6 or 7.5 sec cooldown but no charges meant it collided with Bloodthirst’s cooldown very frequently, which did not feel good. [And] having a 20% chance to reset itself is the random proc on the baseline spec that adds an amount of unpredictability to the rotation.
Mind Blast is the same cooldown as Raging Blow and Bloodthirst is the same cooldown as Void Bolt. Identical issue, yet Shadow has to choose between 2 charges (Shadow Word: Void talent) and "an amount of unpredictability" (Shadowy Insight talent)?

Speaking of talents: Legacy of the Void should not be one. Voidforms at 60 Insanity makes the spec feel so much smoother, it should be baseline. Instead, BFA increased the cast time of Void Eruption and added cast time reduction to Legacy of the Void, which made playing other talents in Legacy's row feel even worse...

And, I know this is blasphemous, but I don't mind Shadow Word: Death becoming a talent. But I do hate that it's in the same row as Shadow Crash, an aoe skill. Here's another BFA dev quote that was somehow forgotten when it comes to Shadow:
If a row has three similar area-damage talents, your decision can feel like it boils down to a complex math problem. If a row mixes area-damage and single-target talents, you’ll likely feel you should change talents to suit the content you’re doing, which also rarely feels like a choice. The most successful talent rows are those with options that have a generally consistent role in your toolkit, but have very different delivery and mechanics, allowing players to thoughtfully customize their identity and complexity.
Also, Shadow should bring something akin to Blessing of Wisdom or Innervate. That would help Shadow overcome its stigma and delight Burning Crusade players.
10/22/2018 07:42 PMPosted by Lothain

Don't be dramatic. Enhancement has a unique but viable playstyle, it's the community who listens too much to streamers and don't invit enhc. They are cool. Not in a dire state at all. They need work, but no need for this "I'm the readheaded stepchild".


There isn't a single reason to want an Enhance in your raid over other melee specs, which puts them in a worse position than Shadow RN. At least Shadow can get brought if you need a mass dispel. That's without even getting into the fact that enhance rotation is a mess right now, with Maelstorm being basically meaningless
Hey this isnt a bad start but could we get Shadow Word Death baseline and maybe Twist of Fate?
why is shadow word: death still a talent? i'm cool with all the changes, whatever, but sw:death should be baseline. shadow crash damage isn't increased either?
Let's also not forget, the major reason longer voidforms did so much damage in Legion was the artifact gold trait, Mass Hysteria.

Without the 2% damage increase to both dots for every stack of voidform, remaining in voidform longer still will not be as impactful.

In fact, with so much of our AOE damage tied to eruption, it may still be that we want to exit voidform quickly to re-enter it.
This doesn't fix our 4 glaring issues, and even you mentioned one of them but then didn't mention how your going to fix it

1) Majority of our AoE tied to entering voidform which we need to do for single aka nerfing our AoE, at least now we leave voidform early so we can do it more often ... but longer voidforms means a massive nerf to our AoE.
2) Utility ... we have none except mass dispel which is EXTREMELY niche
3) Why is SW:D a talent?
4) A lot our talents are extremely underwhelming ... many AoE talents are beating single
10/22/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Seph
Voidform increases spell damage by 20% (up from 10%)
Insanity drain increase per second in Voidform reduced by 15%
Void Bolt Insanity generation increased by 25%

The current Voidform model in BfA is healthy in regards to its length and frequency. Increasing Voidform uptime will directly counter how Shadow wants to play around AoE, which is to have frequent Void Eruptions, as well as desync it from the minute cycle.

The issue these changes address is correct: there is not enough value in Voidform. But adding length and intangible increases, such as raw damage numbers, does little to correct this when Shadow's current goals, i.e. Void Eruption frequency in AoE and keeping a minute cycle with bender/DA, conflict with it. Instead changes should be made that do not conflict with these goals. One suggestion is that haste in Voidform should be increased further so the player has a clearly visceral difference between the two forms. The current insanity drain supports this since the rate it degenerates is fast enough to counter super high haste counts (such as only getting 5 more stacks during Heroism).
locks acting like we're in bad shape lmao
Was hoping theyd just admit Voidform is not really fun and redesign or shelve it.

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