Shadow Priest Changes in 8.1

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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People complaining about other classes, I hope you do realise that we've been flooding forums since alpha without a single blue response. Do like we did, and go complain somewhere else
10/22/2018 10:17 PMPosted by Jujoh
People complaining about other classes, I hope you do realise that we've been flooding forums since alpha without a single blue response. Do like we did, and go complain somewhere else


They wouldn't be complaining if Blizzard's communication and overall class design in this expansion weren't absolute dog!@#$.

Complain away, my brothers and sisters! They aren't listening to you anyway!
How complete the fix and also fix the subtle AoE nerf that extended VF represents:

1. Make voidform instant cast baseline
2. Make all single-target offensive spells in VF do 30-50% damage to nearby targets
3. Make all DoT damage heal the caster for some balanced percentage of the damage done while in shadowform or voidform.
4. Either increase the damage reduction of dispersion to 90% or reduce it to 40% and allow offensive casting. Alternatively, have it restore 30% max HP and leave it as-is.
5. Shadow Word: Death baseline. Obviously.
Hej
I'm tremendously pleased with these changes, it should be great. But there are 2 things I would like to see still:

1 - I would truly love to have SW:D baseline again and not a talent. It feels so wrong after all these years. So wrong.

2 - Void Eruption takes far too long to cast. I have to plan extremely far in advance to not have to cut a cast short by having to move and then recast it again, or have the target actually die before the cast finishes. It also leaves me wildly open to interrupts in PvP.

Overall though, I am pretty happy with this. Good step in the right direction!
Well this just made my recent decision to gquit and shelf WoW for a while that much easier.
10/22/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Malyx
10/22/2018 09:44 PMPosted by Volumes
Spriest: this

Elemental: Here's some half-!@# talents we let the interns make on lunch break, just for fun. Enjoy your boring and low tier spec, we'll take a look at it in 9.0


This is actually pretty half assed.


Very half assed
So that means I'm done with shadow. Good to know.
Can't wait for 9.0 when spriests and ele shams get half assed changes again and then put on hold again for everybody else to get meaningful reworks.
These changes really dont seem to go far enough. The only ones that will have an effect are the spell damage increase for voidform (10%), insanity drain decrease 15% and voidbolt insanity increase to 20.

So really our voidform should increase from mid 20's duration now to what, low 30's?

The dispersion change, intangibility, focused will and hallucinations seem mostly relevant for pvp

Void torrent and lingering insanity changes are competing with mind bender
surrender to madness change is competing with dark ascension

The talent tree needs a rework. Give us void torrent, with lingering insanity, with mindbender, with dark ascension with S2M
10/22/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Seph
Insanity drain increase per second in Voidform reduced by 15%
Ok, the issue with Voidform seems to be largely ignored, and is quite frustrating that it has. To quote someone far smarter than I am:
Shadow’s baseline AoE rotation is dull and contradictory. Mind Sear generates more Insanity the more targets it hits, which allows you to use Void Eruption faster, but once you’re in Voidform there is no actual benefit to staying in; this while Mind Sear’s design promotes staying in Voidform for as long as possible. Rather, you want to exit Voidform so you can trigger your next Void Eruption as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, there’s no way to accomplish that besides not casting anything, which is generally not worth doing. The problem here is that Void Eruption is tied to entering Voidform; Void Eruption is far too important for our AoE to be so uncontrollable for the player. It is not realistic to expect the player to actively delay going into what’s supposed to be the highlight of the spec, just because they feel, by delaying, they’ll do more AoE through Void Eruption. Moreover, it’s not healthy gameplay to even tempt the player to think it’s worth not casting Mind Sear (or generating any Insanity at all for that matter) just to drop out of Voidform, regardless of whether it is actually worth doing or not.
Please read and understand as it is a major issue with your Voidform, and will continue to be problematic for non-raid content!

An amazing document that developers need to read to understand the issues for Shadow: https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vQBysx2OmRLU5AicbBZND5C6JCXwoC-ii-Z7Rf181-aMGty00p-pMWR2d4GQ2uAOvZVFfg1bI1WAzVF

Now, the communication is appreciated, but, you've left it long since bfa release and ptr. Is there enough time to test considering the issues that have been largely ignored?

And yes, feedback dated as far back as Legion Beta has been ignored is pointing out the mechanical issues involved with Voidform in non-raid content!!!

To put it even more simply:
If I pop Eruption on an AoE pack, I'm thrown into Voidform. I am now held back to progress towards the next eruption because of my actions in Voidform!!! The longer I'm in Voidform, the longer I'm held back from significant AoE, and it feels horrible!!!
So are you removing Edge of Insanity because these buffs will literally make Spriest god tier in arena. Like what the heck?
Yes... yes!

"An uq if an Shel'Yar ma shg'cul vwahuhn! Iiyoq nel'othk ar'afgh!"
Just read your reactions from this thread!
10/22/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Netherspike
God I wish voidform would just go.
10/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Female
Shadow priests: "Get rid of Voidform!"
Blizzard: *Makes it "matter" more*.
10/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Nepla
SW:D still a talent!?
10/22/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Bozwix
It took until 8.1 for this? This feels like stuff you can and should have rolled out weeks after release in an 8.0.5 patch
You are not considering feedback given, and you wonder why the players are upset!!!

Again, read the document in full, and recognise the issues with the spec!!!
https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vQBysx2OmRLU5AicbBZND5C6JCXwoC-ii-Z7Rf181-aMGty00p-pMWR2d4GQ2uAOvZVFfg1bI1WAzVF
10/22/2018 07:47 PMPosted by Ttylol
Thanks for an update, but....

Please redistribute some of Void Eruption's damage to Mind Sear and/or DoTs. +10% spell power is not enough to stop the degenerate playstyle of dropping Voidform ASAP in order to get another Void Eruption for AoE. (Or, ideally, something like: Void Eruption separated from Void Bolt, Void Bolt now activates Void Form, and Void Eruption now has has a cooldown that recharges 300% faster while Voidform is active.)

Please give Mind Blast 2 charges baseline. This is your quote about Fury Warrior:
[Raging Blow] having 2 charges baseline felt better, as a version with either a 6 or 7.5 sec cooldown but no charges meant it collided with Bloodthirst’s cooldown very frequently, which did not feel good. [And] having a 20% chance to reset itself is the random proc on the baseline spec that adds an amount of unpredictability to the rotation.
Mind Blast is the same cooldown as Raging Blow and Bloodthirst is the same cooldown as Void Bolt. Identical issue, yet Shadow has to choose between 2 charges (Shadow Word: Void talent) and "an amount of unpredictability" (Shadowy Insight talent)?

Speaking of talents: Legacy of the Void should not be one. Voidforms at 60 Insanity makes the spec feel so much smoother, it should be baseline. Instead, BFA increased the cast time of Void Eruption and added cast time reduction to Legacy of the Void, which made playing other talents in Legacy's row feel even worse...

And, I know this is blasphemous, but I don't mind Shadow Word: Death becoming a talent. But I do hate that it's in the same row as Shadow Crash, an aoe skill. Here's another BFA dev quote that was somehow forgotten when it comes to Shadow:
If a row has three similar area-damage talents, your decision can feel like it boils down to a complex math problem. If a row mixes area-damage and single-target talents, you’ll likely feel you should change talents to suit the content you’re doing, which also rarely feels like a choice. The most successful talent rows are those with options that have a generally consistent role in your toolkit, but have very different delivery and mechanics, allowing players to thoughtfully customize their identity and complexity.
Also, Shadow should bring something akin to Blessing of Wisdom or Innervate. That would help Shadow overcome its stigma and delight Burning Crusade players.
100% ♥
Spencer Davis Group - Keep on ruining

Keep on pruning, keep on ruining
One fine day, I'm gonna be the one
To make you understand
Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be your man

Keep on ruining, ruining it for my arms
One fine day, I'm gonna be the one
To make you understand
Oh yeah, I'm gonna be your man

Hey, hey, hey
Everyone is talking about me
It makes me feel so bad
Hey, hey, hey
Everyone is laughing at me
It makes me feel so sad
So keep on ruining
--------------------------------------------

Those changes arent even close to good. Some number tweaks which hold us into VF for a longer duration. Now our AoE wom't even be noticable.

Healing in "Dispersion" should be baseline and the new talent going in for Dispersion should make place for a better one.

"Void Torrent" should be removed or should have a way more powerful effect if you buff it.

SW:D back to freaking baseline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you bind us more to stay in VF you should give us Dark Ascension as AoE on a 10 sec CD without turning into VF...

Do you guys even think or was it just " we have to do soemthing, let's pretend were doing smart changes"
10/22/2018 10:39 PMPosted by Rockford
Just read your reactions from this thread!
10/22/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Netherspike
God I wish voidform would just go.
10/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Female
Shadow priests: "Get rid of Voidform!"
Blizzard: *Makes it "matter" more*.
10/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Nepla
SW:D still a talent!?
10/22/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Bozwix
It took until 8.1 for this? This feels like stuff you can and should have rolled out weeks after release in an 8.0.5 patch
You are not considering feedback given, and you wonder why the players are upset!!!

Again, read the document in full, and recognise the issues with the spec!!!
https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vQBysx2OmRLU5AicbBZND5C6JCXwoC-ii-Z7Rf181-aMGty00p-pMWR2d4GQ2uAOvZVFfg1bI1WAzVF


Sadly the average Shadow player, and not just the people who wrote this comprehensive document, understand the issues with the spec far more deeply than anyone on the dev team.

Even so, the community has laid it all out for them in the most explicit possible way. It's an incredibly spot-on analysis. All the hard work was done for Blizzard by the community.

Blizzard just had to make common-sense changes to alleviate these obvious issues, but even that was beyond them.

Where does all that subscriber money go exactly? Look at what GW2 or FFXIV can do with less or similar resources. Class design in those games isn't flawless, but it is very in touch with the community, and those classes feel a thousand times better than anything in BFA WoW.
10/22/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Geöspäwn
what about the RETRIBUTION Paladin improvements? when are they coming along? Is blizzard taking a break on that aspect of the game?


Each time you go to a thread about spec X to complain for buffs to spec Y, spec Y gets nerfed.

Also, I play a ret paladin. Any major issues you see with that spec are likely self-inflicted. It plays very smoothly, has great decision opportunities, performs well, has great survivability... Probably the most complete spec I've tried this expansion alongside Frost mage.
People complaining about the AoE now that the VFs will last long are being moronic. VF is now a flat damage increase, all your AoE outside of Void Eruption(MS, DV, SC, DoTs and even DA) are affected by this increase inside VF. This means there is an actual benefit to be in VF for AoE rather than it being solely a detriment.

Now whether that works out to be on par with current, or better than current for AoE is up in the air and depends solely on how long said targets are living(situations where you dealt exact killing blow with your second natural VEr after your first Void Form it will most likely be worse, but you'd also put out MORE damage up till that exact point and if Void Forms were the same lenght they could be dead before said Void Eruption could even be cast due to the extra damage)

Point is with Void Form having a built in bonus over Shadowform that is a direct improvement to Shadow's AoE AND makes the high Insanity generation of our AoE abilities actually worthwhile. Question is if 9.09% increase in damage while VF is up makes up for increased distance between VEr, which depends entirely how many you could have gotten out exactly. Overall I expect it to come out at no loss of DPS baring fringe cases and a wholy positive change discouriging the degenerate drop VF as soon as possible playstyle.

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