Oh hey look Kul Tiran Shaman

Story Forum
11/03/2018 07:49 AMPosted by Calixto
Wait a minute I know this is off topic but Kul Tiran druids.
I know they have the whole wicker thing going on, but what if you unlocked Lunarwing form on another druid? (Like I did)

Everything would be wicker except the flight form.
This is just me telling myself and wishing they made a wicker Lunarwing form. And even if they didn't what color would it even be?


I guess it could be your Kul Tiras Druid learning different forms of Druidic magic from a different source and then figuring out forms other than the wicker style. Same with the artifact skin forms. Your Kul Tiras Druid may start off with the knowledge of drustvar wicker style magic, but I don’t think nothing is stopping him/her from venturing forth and learning the night elven style as they adventure around Azeroth, Outlands, etc.
11/03/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Yagarr
Not excited to play Kul Tirans cause they can't be Pallies.

:c


I get why people are disappointed. Hell, on a basic level I get that, since troll paladins were a blip on my radar (not going to exaggerate and pretend I've been waiting since the original ZG raid or anything) since vanilla, and for a bit there, I didn't think I'd see them.

Particularly, the big guys in plate would be striking as paladins.

But the Order of Embers seems way more witcher/Van Vanhelsing than Uther at least. And a warrior mogged up to fit that particular look can be just as striking!
If giving humans an iconic Horde class means Zandalari can be paladins then I say carry on!

..I just want to make a Prelate of Jani, okay?
11/03/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Roghter
11/03/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Reallyhappy
Mages don't use lightning magic, in all reality tide priest are a mixture of shaman and mage, but where likely made shamans for more shaman variety on alliance.


Player mages don't use lightning magic. Player mages also don't use shadow magic or necromancy. NPC mages can apparently do both.

Tide sages study in a school, get their abilities from books, and I've not seen them communing with spirits or the spirits of elements at any point. They're mages who simply have access to spells that player mages do not.

So kudos to Kul Tiran shaman, if you try to roleplay your earthquake causing, lava lashing, spirit communing Kul Tiran as a tide sage, you're going to end very confused.


It's the same logic that got us Worgen druids. Blizzard introduced to us a concept that is sort-of like a class we're familiar with, except not really but still calls them X class.

Tidesages to Kul Tiran is what Harvest Witches were to Worgens.
11/03/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Roghter
Tide sages study in a school, get their abilities from books, and I've not seen them communing with spirits or the spirits of elements at any point. They're mages who simply have access to spells that player mages do not.

So kudos to Kul Tiran shaman, if you try to roleplay your earthquake causing, lava lashing, spirit communing Kul Tiran as a tide sage, you're going to end very confused.


And here's the heart of why I can't stand it when people are obtuse about these things.

People like you.

Tidesages were shown in quests to commune and deal with water spirits. They were shown to do very Shaman-like thing. It was obviously something Blizzard planned out ahead of time.

But now we'll just have people like you arguing that they're not real Shaman forever.

Just like Tauren Paladins, Human Hunters, etc.
11/03/2018 09:05 AMPosted by Murdra
It's the same logic that got us Worgen druids. Blizzard introduced to us a concept that is sort-of like a class we're familiar with, except not really but still calls them X class.

Tidesages to Kul Tiran is what Harvest Witches were to Worgens.


Harvest Witches also benefited from only really being harvest witches for a single zone. After which they were then brought in line with the fundamental themes and history of the actual druid class.

11/03/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Draile
And here's the heart of why I can't stand it when people are obtuse about these things.

People like you.


Where as I merely dislike you because you never say anything interesting, intelligent or constructive. Take this post for instance. I may very well be wrong in a single assertion I made while pointing out that thematically Tide Sages are more closely aligned with Mages than Shaman.

Your response is equal parts irrelevant, exaggeration, and straw manning. With a dose of insulting only to show you lack any basic ability at self reflection. So to respond to your post.

Kul Tiran Shaman are real shaman, they're just going to be nothing like Tidesages. People who argued that cloth wearing, book studying, relic forging Tidesages who, despite your claims, you've never shown to commune with ancestor spirits or make deals with elemental spirits, were Shaman are wrong.

Now, because actual Kul Tiran Shaman are of course real shaman. They're going to call upon the spirits of ancestors. They're going to commune with the elements. They're going to join the Earthen Ring. They're going to spend their Legion levels working in close concert with other primalists who do all the same things they do and they're never once going to go to a college, wear cloth, or be a mage with lightning spells. Because Kul Tiran shaman are real shaman, not these fake Tidesages that you've hitched your gloating post to.
Harvest Witches also benefited from only really being harvest witches for a single zone. After which they were then brought in line with the fundamental themes and history of the actual druid class.


Exactly. The only thing that made Tidesages vaguely shamanistic was the totems and that's it. Much like the Harvest Witches and their penchant for using their magic to grow crops was vaguely similar to druids planting and growing their trees.

But other then those threads, there is nothing else really to tie them to classes they supposedly are.

I'm hoping someone actually asks Blizzard at the Q & A if these classes are final though.
Thought I mention mages don't tend to perform religious functions such as funeral rites which we see Tidesages doing placing them more aligned with Shamans. Just think of Kul Tiras Shamans like the Catholics of Shamankind with their monasticism.
11/03/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Roghter
11/03/2018 09:05 AMPosted by Murdra
It's the same logic that got us Worgen druids. Blizzard introduced to us a concept that is sort-of like a class we're familiar with, except not really but still calls them X class.

Tidesages to Kul Tiran is what Harvest Witches were to Worgens.


Harvest Witches also benefited from only really being harvest witches for a single zone. After which they were then brought in line with the fundamental themes and history of the actual druid class.

11/03/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Draile
And here's the heart of why I can't stand it when people are obtuse about these things.

People like you.


Where as I merely dislike you because you never say anything interesting, intelligent or constructive. Take this post for instance. I may very well be wrong in a single assertion I made while pointing out that thematically Tide Sages are more closely aligned with Mages than Shaman.

Your response is equal parts irrelevant, exaggeration, and straw manning. With a dose of insulting only to show you lack any basic ability at self reflection. So to respond to your post.

Kul Tiran Shaman are real shaman, they're just going to be nothing like Tidesages. People who argued that cloth wearing, book studying, relic forging Tidesages who, despite your claims, you've never shown to commune with ancestor spirits or make deals with elemental spirits, were Shaman are wrong.

Now, because actual Kul Tiran Shaman are of course real shaman. They're going to call upon the spirits of ancestors. They're going to commune with the elements. They're going to join the Earthen Ring. They're going to spend their Legion levels working in close concert with other primalists who do all the same things they do and they're never once going to go to a college, wear cloth, or be a mage with lightning spells. Because Kul Tiran shaman are real shaman, not these fake Tidesages that you've hitched your gloating post to.


One of the like, earliest Stormsong quests is going around with Pike using a bell to capture souls so they can be released through a shrine to join the rest of their dead. Spirits do play a part in the tidesage's work.
This is stupid, human shamans and druids. Now the strongest lore druids and shamans will be humans. All Druid and shaman plot will be handled by humans.

How can a human even be as civilized and be a shaman?(Goblin too) is rise of the horde not canon? It showed who shamans are how they live.. shamans wouldn’t live in luxury or in a human like life style we see in game.

Blizzard just ruins things that made wow great. Where is the racial identity and uniqueness?
11/03/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Yagarr
Not excited to play Kul Tirans cause they can't be Pallies.

:c


What is it with people's obsession over the damn paladin class? I dont care much one way or the other for it personally.(i already have one of each class)
11/03/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Verodica
One of the like, earliest Stormsong quests is going around with Pike using a bell to capture souls so they can be released through a shrine to join the rest of their dead. Spirits do play a part in the tidesage's work.


Seems pretty thin but you know what, fine. Tidesages trap spirits in bells and release them at shrines. And they throw lightning bolts. And drop totems. I guess they're shaman.

Now lets strap some fist weapons to some Tidesages so they can employ some studied elemental sagacity all over Azeroth one mighty Sage Punch at a time.
Kurzen you will be avenged.
11/03/2018 01:06 PMPosted by Roghter
11/03/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Verodica
One of the like, earliest Stormsong quests is going around with Pike using a bell to capture souls so they can be released through a shrine to join the rest of their dead. Spirits do play a part in the tidesage's work.


Seems pretty thin but you know what, fine. Tidesages trap spirits in bells and release them at shrines. And they throw lightning bolts. And drop totems. I guess they're shaman.

Now lets strap some fist weapons to some Tidesages so they can employ some studied elemental sagacity all over Azeroth one mighty Sage Punch at a time.


This is a bit of a second reply to your comment about real shamans, and also pertains a bit to this one.

Tidesages are a bit different from other shamans but isn't that a good thing? Maybe it's just me but I've always thought of classes as set of ideals that can be interpreted differently depending on the culture/race.

Tidesages, if they join the Earthern Ring, should not just meld into the generic shaman archetype. Just like Tauren paladins, Human paladins, Draenei and Blood Elf paladins shouldn't all be lumped under the same umbrella like they were for Legion.

I'm not saying that Blizz should go out an create like five different versions of the same class per race, that's madness. But in the narrative you could treat them very differently from one another.
I look forward to wielding [strikeout]Mjolnir[/strikeout] Doomhammer as a human shaman with a pentient for thunder.

https://i.imgur.com/hIlnREE.jpg

What a good time for island expedition's mail sets to include vrykul tattoos.
11/03/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Roghter
Where as I merely dislike you because you never say anything interesting, intelligent or constructive. Take this post for instance. I may very well be wrong in a single assertion I made while pointing out that thematically Tide Sages are more closely aligned with Mages than Shaman.


Except, they aren't.

"Reading books" doesn't make someone a mage.

Reading books on science and the arcane does.

The books Tidesages read are largely lore books.

11/03/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Roghter
Your response is equal parts irrelevant, exaggeration, and straw manning. With a dose of insulting only to show you lack any basic ability at self reflection. So to respond to your post.


I think it's more like you just took my phrasing way too personally. I doubt you even know my post history here.

11/03/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Roghter
Kul Tiran Shaman are real shaman, they're just going to be nothing like Tidesages. People who argued that cloth wearing, book studying, relic forging Tidesages who, despite your claims, you've never shown to commune with ancestor spirits or make deals with elemental spirits, were Shaman are wrong.


You really need to do the Stormsong quests again, as well as the Shadows over Anglepoint quests.

11/03/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Roghter
Now, because actual Kul Tiran Shaman are of course real shaman. They're going to call upon the spirits of ancestors. They're going to commune with the elements. They're going to join the Earthen Ring. They're going to spend their Legion levels working in close concert with other primalists who do all the same things they do and they're never once going to go to a college, wear cloth, or be a mage with lightning spells. Because Kul Tiran shaman are real shaman, not these fake Tidesages that you've hitched your gloating post to.


No, I made a very real and accurate complaint towards the attitude certain players really will have.

A view I have which I easily attributed to you, because you specifically said:

11/03/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Roghter
They're mages who simply have access to spells that player mages do not.


There you are, man, just totally ignoring the established lore and making up your own.

Which is specifically my pet peeve, and not a straw man at all.

You can do a 180 to back yourself out all you want, my complaint still stands as relevant. And I can honestly tell you're one of the people I was complaining about when I said:

11/03/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Draile
But now we'll just have people like you arguing that they're not real Shaman forever.


The key word being "arguing", because that's what this really comes down to. People, like you, who want to quote everything I say and take an opposing stance not for any kind of enlightening debate -- but because this is the internet and your ego is very sensitive.

I agree with you when it comes to annoyance about straw man arguments and what not. I agree with you because that's my complaint.
I'm pretty happy about shaman being an option. I originally was going to make a druid, but the horrific Boomkin form saw an end to that. The only other class I was interested in making was shaman, because I like the Tidesages. So it looks like a Kul Tiran alt is back on the menu.
Except, they aren't.

"Reading books" doesn't make someone a mage.

Reading books on science and the arcane does.

The books Tidesages read are largely lore books.


Knowing your posting history well enough, I'm going to assume you've made that last part up as the contents of the Tidesage library doesn't appear to have been made available.

You're of course welcome to prove me wrong by linking to the contents of the Tidesage library.

I think it's more like you just took my phrasing way too personally. I doubt you even know my post history here.


You specifically insulted me. And while your opinion of me doesn't actually have any weight and I really don't care, I submit that if you're shocked at the idea that an insult could be taken personally, you're not mature enough to insult people. Adjust your behavior accordingly until you have the necessary experience to be circumspect about your own behavior.

No, I made a very real and accurate complaint towards the attitude certain players really will have.


This has no relevance to the part of my post you quoted. In fact, it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what I posted that continues a common mistake that you're making that I will address below.

A view I have which I easily attributed to you, because you specifically said:


There you are, man, just totally ignoring the established lore and making up your own.


You are engaged in a logical fallacy called a false dichotomy, you probably don't even realize you're doing it, thinking is not your strong point. From this false dichotomy you are only able to view the situation in a highly limited way where in you can see someone calling Tidesages a type of mage and think that equates somehow to Kul Tirans not having shaman. Which you then expand into your hysterical situation where you half-assedly predict that I will start saying that Kul Tirans are not "real shaman."

The third option, that you haven't considered is that Kul Tirans can have shaman that are not Tidesages. In fact, I submit they will have shaman who are not Tidesages in every way but name by the very necessity of this games class set up not matching the characteristics of Tidesages.

Anyway, I've already discussed this situation with a better informed and more intelligent poster than you and have conceded the point. So I'm moving on.
Tide Sages being given a class is really tough to pin down. They're a blend of shaman, priest, and mage. Lorewise it works very well, but when it comes to game play it really is hard to pigeon hole them into one specific class. Its one of the situations where gameplay>lore. Look at Forsaken Holy Priests, Tauren Paladins, and Goblin Shamans.

One could almost argue for Kul Tiran paladins in that the Tide Guards fill a similar niche, but seem to use water based magic as well.
11/03/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Zerde
11/03/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Yagarr
Not excited to play Kul Tirans cause they can't be Pallies.

:c


What is it with people's obsession over the damn paladin class? I dont care much one way or the other for it personally.(i already have one of each class)


I don’t care for them having Paladin because I want to be one, I will never switch from being a dark iron Paladin. BUT! Anyone who played W3, and had to kill Admiral Proudmore(which mind you this whole expansion is about!!!) must remember how much of a actual pain in the brass, it was to kill the squadrons of Paladins he had at his disposal! I swear I was fighting three at one time!! I think Kultiran deserve Paladins just for that reason! Not to mention Paladins were taught to other races(Bronzebeard dwarves literal lore for Paladins is being taught by humans!!)

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