Refuting Blue-Eyed Customization for Blood Elves

General Discussion
11/08/2018 04:08 PMPosted by Talendrion
But like, we all know that HE people are not going to stop asking about High Elves if Blood Elves get blue eyes. It changes nothing the core reasons why HE are part of the Alliance and Blood Elves are on the Horde.

And if people think it would stop people for wanting HE on the alliance, then don't know why people want HE on the alliance on the first place. Cause it's not the eye color.

The only thing the eye color does is help differentiate, which is by itself, a notion I don't agree with, and by far, not the reason why people want High Elves.

The only thing that would shut up High Elf fanatics is if Blizzard were to meet all their demands, and let them play the exact Blood Elf model with all the same customizations as Alliance, and forcibly faction change all existing Blood Elves.
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Koltyra
The only thing that would shut up High Elf fanatics is if Blizzard were to meet all their demands, and let them play the exact Blood Elf model with all the same customizations as Alliance, and forcibly faction change all existing Blood Elves.


Hyperbole does not do you any favors.
We took the sunwell back years ago. I'd think anyone who hangs out with it long enough can get that green out of their eyes.

Or you know, a goblin got some sunwell water and is selling it as an eyewash.

That second seems more plausible.
11/08/2018 04:11 PMPosted by Seachrome
Oh boy dead horse beating time!


There's never a bad time for a vigorous beating!
"Back in my day, if I wanted blue eyes I had to die uphill both ways and come back as glorified cannon fodder!"
11/08/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Airc
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Koltyra
The only thing that would shut up High Elf fanatics is if Blizzard were to meet all their demands, and let them play the exact Blood Elf model with all the same customizations as Alliance, and forcibly faction change all existing Blood Elves.

Hyperbole does not do you any favors.

I am not exaggerating. I have seen these demands in the forums. These people exist, and they believe their demands are reasonable.
11/08/2018 04:14 PMPosted by Airc
Yes. It's very possible. I mean, he even mentioned it being "contact lenses", heh. Ion is not a lore guy. He's been wrong in the past. Working at Blizzard, even as the game director, does not make you omnipotent. Even Metzen made mistakes, and he was much better at knowing the story than Ion has shown himself to be. But then again, like I said, Ion isn't the lore guy. Blizzard has other guys for that.
Except he was not wrong and they are the same thing. Honoring the dead and not honoring the dead does not suddenly change someone's race.

And before you bring up the "B-but americans and british..." real life example that you always like to bring up... if you have one caucasican american and one caucasican brit, their cultures might be different, but they're the same race, and in the case of High elves their culture has not even changed that much. The main difference it's the veganism (which I'm guessing they don't need to worry about that anymore now), and that they kiss up to humans.

But on topic...

11/08/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ashan
Indeed, the high elves commitment to the Alliance and refusal to join with or even identify as blood elves shows a clear distinction between the two factions. After the Second War, the high elves who would later become blood elves, largely pulled back from the Alliance. This was the start of the blood elves departure from the Alliance, which was then cemented after the Third War when Kael'thas splintered from them completely. The remaining blood elves in Quel'Thalas would later join the Horde in TBC.
I like how this conveniently forgets the part when the Blood elves, under Kael'thas command, joined the Alliance only to be used and abused by Garithos and then withdrew for a second time. The wording is very subtle, but very clever, really, specially since it wasn't just a matter of "the high elves who would later become blood elves, largely pulled back from the Alliance", but the High elven Kingdom of Quel'thalas, as a whole, officially seceded.
Anyone that was left was either independent or some elements here and there sticking with the humans.

11/08/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ashan
Well you see, there are strong ideological differences between the two factions that are the source of this animosity. One example of this would be that the blood elves were willing to siphon the fel energies of demons to sate their hunger for magic, while high elves were unwilling to stoop to such a level.

Sources: The Warcraft Encyclopedia/High Elves and Blood Elves.
And from the exact same source...

Although the only physical difference between blood and high elves is their eye color - blood elves have glowing green eyes - this is not an indication of their quarrel. Fel magic played no apparent role in the elves' splintering; in fact, its use was hidden from most of the blood elves


Glowing green eyes is the high elven body's natural reaction to spending time around fel magic.
This is from the AskCDev Round 3.

11/08/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ashan
You may also look to the values which separate the Alliance and Horde to begin with. The Alliance, driven by tradition, justice, and duty, resonate strongly with the high elves' ideals of maintaining loyalty to their allies
Loyalty? That's why they were reluctlantly joined the Alliance (For no other reason than a promise Anasterian made, I might add), left it, rejoined it, and left it again?

I actually bothered reading the entire wall, but as expected, is nothing but cherrypicked lore that supports the OP's position and a lot of clever wordings, sprinkled with some already retconned things. If it wasn't because I've seen this done so many times when it comes to blue eyed blood elves, I would at least be surprised.
11/08/2018 04:14 PMPosted by Airc
11/08/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Alphon
I guess Ion Hazzikostas was trolling or was incompetently ignorant then, right? Considering he even suggested blue eyes for blood elves...


Yes. It's very possible. I mean, he even mentioned it being "contact lenses", heh. Ion is not a lore guy. He's been wrong in the past. Working at Blizzard, even as the game director, does not make you omnipotent. Even Metzen made mistakes, and he was much better at knowing the story than Ion has shown himself to be. But then again, like I said, Ion isn't the lore guy. Blizzard has other guys for that.
Wth are you talking about?
Of course he knows the lore, he joked and called it contact lenses because you can easily go to a “barber” to swap eye colours on a whim.


I see blood elf filth have joined horde filth, but High Elves are part of the Silver Covenant.
11/08/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Koltyra
11/08/2018 04:08 PMPosted by Talendrion
But like, we all know that HE people are not going to stop asking about High Elves if Blood Elves get blue eyes. It changes nothing the core reasons why HE are part of the Alliance and Blood Elves are on the Horde.

And if people think it would stop people for wanting HE on the alliance, then don't know why people want HE on the alliance on the first place. Cause it's not the eye color.

The only thing the eye color does is help differentiate, which is by itself, a notion I don't agree with, and by far, not the reason why people want High Elves.

The only thing that would shut up High Elf fanatics is if Blizzard were to meet all their demands, and let them play the exact Blood Elf model with all the same customizations as Alliance, and forcibly faction change all existing Blood Elves.


Well maybe, but do you or I care about High Elf fanatics? I don't want my Blood Elves to be High Elves, I personally just want my High Elves to be playable.

So IDK if you want to worry about those people, that's up to you.
11/08/2018 04:14 PMPosted by Airc
11/08/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Alphon
I guess Ion Hazzikostas was trolling or was incompetently ignorant then, right? Considering he even suggested blue eyes for blood elves...


Yes. It's very possible. I mean, he even mentioned it being "contact lenses", heh. Ion is not a lore guy. He's been wrong in the past. Working at Blizzard, even as the game director, does not make you omnipotent. Even Metzen made mistakes, and he was much better at knowing the story than Ion has shown himself to be. But then again, like I said, Ion isn't the lore guy. Blizzard has other guys for that.
Ion also gave a long drawn out reason for no Zandalari Dino Druid forms other than travel form.

Then Zandalari Druids get Dino forms and he has never fessed up to it lol
11/08/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Atarael
It's not really a matter of being against, more so it making logical sense.

It's an eye color change. They have golden eyes now, so the fel corruption argument no longer holds weight. I'd say just let them have the blue eyes.
JFC just give the Void Elves a phasing transformation similar to Worgen and Alleria to shut these High Elf posters up. The Blood Elves are literally the survivors of Quel'thalas after Arthas invaded. It doesn't matter if their eyes are/were green because of their addiction to fel magic. The Sin'dorei are literally the Quel'dorei.

"B-But muh cultural difference and the Alliance!", No. Shut up.

The High Elves were never as buddy-buddy with the Kingdoms of Men as the Dwarves have historically been. The only reason why they even sent anybody to help in the Second War is because of repaying an old blood debt to the Arathor line. Yes, there are outliers like Kael'thas Sunstrider, Valeera and Alleria Windrunner. But that's because they either married compatriots or went to study abroad similar to Jaina.

Every time somebody brings up their culture or how all High Elves are human lovers I just want to bash my head against the desk. The Alliance shunned the Sin'dorei because of their magic addiction. The Nightborne were shunned by Tyrande because of their, gasp, addiction to magical energy as well.

You would think that this whole "Sorry-bud-we-can't" schtick with the Alliance would stop given that Anduin's inactions are already fraying the relations with the Night Elves as well.
11/08/2018 06:00 PMPosted by Vornuus
JFC just give the Void Elves a phasing transformation similar to Worgen and Alleria to shut these High Elf posters up. The Blood Elves are literally the survivors of Quel'thalas after Arthas invaded. It doesn't matter if their eyes are/were green because of their addiction to fel magic. The Sin'dorei are literally the Quel'dorei.

"B-But muh cultural difference and the Alliance!", No. Shut up.

The High Elves were never as buddy-buddy with the Kingdoms of Men as the Dwarves have historically been. The only reason why they even sent anybody to help in the Second War is because of repaying an old blood debt to the Arathor line. Yes, there are outliers like Kael'thas Sunstrider, Valeera and Alleria Windrunner. But that's because they either married compatriots or went to study abroad similar to Jaina.

Every time somebody brings up their culture or how all High Elves are human lovers I just want to bash my head against the desk. The Alliance shunned the Sin'dorei because of their magic addiction. The Nightborne were shunned by Tyrande because of their, gasp, addiction to magical energy as well.

You would think that this whole "Sorry-bud-we-can't" schtick with the Alliance would stop given that Anduin's inactions are already fraying the relations with the Night Elves as well.
Then who are these High Elves who are still aligned with Alliance?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Yvera_Dawnwing

https://wow.gamepedia.com/7th_Legion_Battle_Mage
11/08/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Alphon
You want to talk about blurring faction lines yet you want high elves on the Alliance? Wow.

I'll just throw this in here.

Ion Hazzikostas, April 26, 2018 Q&A

Obviously, we understand if you love Alliance, you're an Alliance player, and you just want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf... Sorry? The Horde is there waiting for you. Uh, eye color is not quite the same, but might be contact lenses in the future, you never know.


Ion doesn't seem to think it would blur faction lines, considering he said himself that Blood Elves are High Elves as well, and even mentioned blue eyes for Blood Elves. :)


Blurring the faction lines from a standpoint of character models and racial biology was done the moment void elves were announced, and to a certain extent, Nightborne. But blurring the lines from a standpoint of ideological differences is what would happen if blood elves obtained blue eyes, which would be much more confusing.

The only logical solution is to make high elves even more different than blood elves. It could involve adding lore. Something like the high elves unifying and embracing their classical heritage of tribal tattoos and feathered hair accessories. Maybe even a new base model with different animations than blood elves. There's a lot of room for development.

This artist drew some great concept art: https://imgur.com/a/AF0HpSm

I don't think Ion's statement amounts to much. It was more or less damage control, vaguely worded, and left open-ended if you watch the complete clip of what he said. Also, all of what he implied of high elves could be applied even more so of void elves, except skin tone. But honestly, all it would take is some developed backstory and showering high elves in tribal tattoos to resolve that.

There's a lot we don't know about when the elves first arrived in the Eastern Kingdoms several thousand years ago. They may have a long forgotten culture from around when Quel'Thalas was being founded. Especially because when blood elves renamed themselves, much of their culture began to change as well. They developed a greater penchant for the color of crimson, changed their racial crest, began to feature their flags with a phoenix, and even seemed to change their general attitude and way of speaking(high elves and blood elves use different voice files in-game).

So already there are some notable cultural differences between high elves and blood elves. They just need to further expand on that to develop high elves into their own. This would keep faction lines unblurred and, I believe, bring an end to the age-old controversy.
11/08/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Malec
Then who are these High Elves who are still aligned with Alliance?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Yvera_Dawnwing

https://wow.gamepedia.com/7th_Legion_Battle_Mage


Human Potential enablers
Do people really care that much what color a characters eye are??

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