Survival should be a dual wield spec

Hunter
Why can't hunters use agility one handed maces? This is a holdover from Classic where classes had set weapon types and for some reason, two handed weapons like polearms and staves were focused on to become hunter weapons.

Change: survival is now a dual wield spec and hunters cannot use 2h weapons such as polearms, staves, or even 2h axes. Instead, hunters can dual wield daggers, axes, maces, swords, and fist weapons. And all of the melee abilities are changed to reflect this.
Honestly, I still think BM should have been the melee spec.

Rexxar is a beast master that uses two axes. Why they ignored their own lore and created the weirdness that is survival, I have no idea.

Don’t get me wrong. SV is a great spec, it just makes no sense at all.

It’s like making the Lightning priest who electrocutes people or something. It might work and be kinda cool but it’s out of left field.
I actually prefer 2h over DW, so much so that I probably wouldn't play a solely DW hunter.

But I know it's popularity, so I'd welcome the option to do both. And I really think this should be the case with other specs too. Frost DK, enhance sham etc

They have managed it in the past with passive abilities that take over depending on what you have equipped, and now that artifact weps are gone, there's really no reason that I can see left to be so restrictive on this sort of thing
I want to use fist weapons on my worgen and 2h swords and polearms on my night elf. Why not both?
11/12/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Whim
I want to use fist weapons on my worgen and 2h swords and polearms on my night elf. Why not both?


Because the ability tends to target a weapon type. If you look at the Survival skills currently, they all say "Requires 2H weapon equipped".
I support dual wield on SV, and actually strongly want that, although i DO NOT support removing 2H's from survival, nor do I think that will ever happen.
11/12/2018 04:18 PMPosted by Grunthax
11/12/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Whim
I want to use fist weapons on my worgen and 2h swords and polearms on my night elf. Why not both?


Because the ability tends to target a weapon type. If you look at the Survival skills currently, they all say "Requires 2H weapon equipped".
That went over your head. What I posted was my preference in what I would want if DW was allowed for more than looks.
I say blizzard should make up their minds full melee or full ranged for the spect.suv hunter should be full melee since hunter already has bm with all ranged abilities and mm.

Suv hunter needs to be full melee
11/12/2018 12:55 PMPosted by Kirkwood
Honestly, I still think BM should have been the melee spec.

Rexxar is a beast master that uses two axes. Why they ignored their own lore and created the weirdness that is survival, I have no idea.

Don’t get me wrong. SV is a great spec, it just makes no sense at all.

It’s like making the Lightning priest who electrocutes people or something. It might work and be kinda cool but it’s out of left field.


None of the specs should have been melee. BUT, if you put a gun to my head and said "one Hunter spec absolutely MUST be melee", I would agree that the spec should be BM.

Going back in time to WoD and looking forward, BM was the only spec having an identity which didn't explicitly depend on the spec being ranged. The CLASS identity depended on using a ranged weapon but given that they would redefine and dilute that identity anyway BM was the most sensible option. The only real notable melee Hunter of lore was a Beastmaster and they have proven that they are incapable of coming up with an identity for melee SV that doesn't just boil down to "melee BM". Look at SV's toolkit right now: Kill Command is BM's current signature, Spirit Bond (the mastery) is an iconic BM talent of old, and Coordinated Assault is effectively a renamed Bestial Wrath.

The only real reason for SV to be the melee-preferred spec is because it had the melee talents/skills in original WoW. But that is inconsequential; it was a relic of rushed, incomplete class design (Hunters were the last class added to WoW and nearly didn't make it in). SV already had an established identity. We did not need "Pet master, sharpshooter, and melee pet master" as our 3 different specs.

But, of course, we did not need melee at all.

11/12/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Locgar
I say blizzard should make up their minds full melee or full ranged for the spect.suv hunter should be full melee since hunter already has bm with all ranged abilities and mm.

Suv hunter needs to be full melee


Lmao, what a terrible idea. You know why? Because they tried this in Legion and it failed hard. SV's ranged capabilities are a big selling point for a spec that otherwise has none. It's the only thing that makes SV stand out among other melee. The game does not need another generic Arms Warrior spec. History is not on your side, anyway. At this point there is a strong correlation between how ranged SV is and how many people play it.
Survival should be a ranged spec with some melee capabilities like in Vanilla... ahhhh 1.2... the good ol' days...
No, absolutely not. These days almost every single melee dps spec is a dual wielder. If you want to dual wield so badly there's like 10 other classes waiting for you. I hate that the only Identity that SV has left right now is "The spear guys" do you really want to take even that away? Might as well be playing a Rogue at that point.
11/13/2018 12:27 AMPosted by Orangesilk
No, absolutely not. These days almost every single melee dps spec is a dual wielder. If you want to dual wield so badly there's like 10 other classes waiting for you. I hate that the only Identity that SV has left right now is "The spear guys" do you really want to take even that away? Might as well be playing a Rogue at that point.


I would not bring up rogues if you want to describe differentiation within a class. Each spec within a class should have something that differentiates it from the OTHER specs within the class, NOT other classes. Otherwise, say, Shamans would have dual wield and the devs would say, "Okay, we gave you dual wield, gratz."

As other people above have said, Surv has long had melee (and then for a long time, no melee) so almost by default it should be the melee spec. Someone give me a convincing argument and good description of a non melee Surv if you want to prove me wrong.

So:

BM = ranged hunter with exotic pets
MM = marksman with no pet, just a bad !@# ranger
Surv = dual wield melee hunter with pet
11/13/2018 12:46 AMPosted by Grunthax
11/13/2018 12:27 AMPosted by Orangesilk
No, absolutely not. These days almost every single melee dps spec is a dual wielder. If you want to dual wield so badly there's like 10 other classes waiting for you. I hate that the only Identity that SV has left right now is "The spear guys" do you really want to take even that away? Might as well be playing a Rogue at that point.


I would not bring up rogues if you want to describe differentiation within a class. Each spec within a class should have something that differentiates it from the OTHER specs within the class, NOT other classes. Otherwise, say, Shamans would have dual wield and the devs would say, "Okay, we gave you dual wield, gratz."

As other people above have said, Surv has long had melee (and then for a long time, no melee) so almost by default it should be the melee spec. Someone give me a convincing argument and good description of a non melee Surv if you want to prove me wrong.

So:

BM = ranged hunter with exotic pets
MM = marksman with no pet, just a bad !@# ranger
Surv = dual wield melee hunter with pet

You've yet to give me a compelling reason to make them dual wielders at all. From a mechanical point of view, few classes even have 2h dps as an option, it makes zero sense to take from one of the few that do to add to the myriad of dual wielding classes.

From a flavor point of view, RL hunting was either done with Spears or Arrows/Bullets. It makes zero sense to use a sword while hunting.

I get that you find dual wielding cool, that's nice, I find it dumb as hell. But if you hate Spears so much, there's a zillion melee dps dual wielders waiting for you, just play something else. SV Hunter lacks in identity as it is, don't make it even worse.
11/12/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Revín
Survival should be a ranged spec with some melee capabilities like in Vanilla... ahhhh 1.2... the good ol' days...


It is.. it has 1 melee ability. Mongoose bite. Almost all the abilities are ranged... SERP sting, bombs, kill command, traps, stun, Harpoon.. hell even mongoose is ranged every 1.5 minutes lol
11/13/2018 01:19 AMPosted by Orangesilk
From a flavor point of view, RL hunting was either done with Spears or Arrows/Bullets. It makes zero sense to use a sword while hunting.
They did make swords just for hunting, and currently knives get as much use on hogs as spears do. Also why attack him on mechanics? That seems to be reaching a bit.
11/13/2018 03:03 AMPosted by Chiptheripa
11/12/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Revín
Survival should be a ranged spec with some melee capabilities like in Vanilla... ahhhh 1.2... the good ol' days...


It is.. it has 1 melee ability. Mongoose bite. Almost all the abilities are ranged... SERP sting, bombs, kill command, traps, stun, Harpoon.. hell even mongoose is ranged every 1.5 minutes lol
It's still melee.
11/13/2018 04:53 AMPosted by Whim
11/13/2018 01:19 AMPosted by Orangesilk
From a flavor point of view, RL hunting was either done with Spears or Arrows/Bullets. It makes zero sense to use a sword while hunting.
They did make swords just for hunting, and currently knives get as much use on hogs as spears do. Also why attack him on mechanics? That seems to be reaching a bit.


Equipped with thick, razor-sharp tusks, and a razor-sharp mind (hogs are the 4th most intelligent animal in the world) a wild boar can weigh a staggering 660 lbs and exhibit extremely aggressive and unpredictable behaviour. Go hunt a wild boar with a knife, I'll speak at your funeral.
i dont agree personally, even though it makes some sense with Rexxar etc... WEre already silly with "everything is a hunter weapon", there needs to be some balance in that regard so from a pure gameplay perspective. I really dont want to have to fight almost every other class for drops.
I think melee should have been a 4th spec.
I also think there should be other ranged specs added to other classes such as a ranged holy dps spec for paladins, or a ranged gun spec for rogues.
But none of this is going to happen, we are all getting pruned down till it eventually fits on tablets.
11/13/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Nemesîs
11/13/2018 04:53 AMPosted by Whim
...They did make swords just for hunting, and currently knives get as much use on hogs as spears do. Also why attack him on mechanics? That seems to be reaching a bit.


Equipped with thick, razor-sharp tusks, and a razor-sharp mind (hogs are the 4th most intelligent animal in the world) a wild boar can weigh a staggering 660 lbs and exhibit extremely aggressive and unpredictable behaviour. Go hunt a wild boar with a knife, I'll speak at your funeral.
Catchdogs are used when it comes to using knives and spears, just like before. It's not just a guy with an AR15 like you see on videos, though I'd prefer an AR15 to hunt them with. The best way is to take of them is through massive live traps and either modern sporting rifles or even machine guns in helicopters. Swords made for hunting were typically used by nobles who did not want to use the common spear.
11/13/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Whim
11/13/2018 10:02 AMPosted by Nemesîs
...

Equipped with thick, razor-sharp tusks, and a razor-sharp mind (hogs are the 4th most intelligent animal in the world) a wild boar can weigh a staggering 660 lbs and exhibit extremely aggressive and unpredictable behaviour. Go hunt a wild boar with a knife, I'll speak at your funeral.
Catchdogs are used when it comes to using knives and spears, just like before. It's not just a guy with an AR15 like you see on videos, though I'd prefer an AR15 to hunt them with. The best way is to take of them is through massive live traps and either modern sporting rifles or even machine guns in helicopters. Swords made for hunting were typically used by nobles who did not want to use the common spear.


I don't think reality is the best place to look as a reference for a game where we tame magical creatures and can fly.

Let's ask a more basic question: why can hunters STILL dual-wield (since vanilla) if the devs had not wanted some form of dual wielding for hunters all along? If they hadn't wanted it, we would not be able to equip 1h axes and fist weapons. And with the revamp that made Surv a melee spec, why were those abilities not taken out? Why were 2H swords and 2H maces not put in?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum