Arguing about Vanilla & Retail difficulty

Classic Discussion
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Extreme casuals are a thing I guess.


I noticed you skipped over my post with some hard statistics.


Tiny sample on some pserver that will die in a few months like they all do isnt exactly top tier players.
Ah i cant be bothered proving yall to be fools.
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I noticed you skipped over my post with some hard statistics.


Tiny sample on some pserver that will die in a few months like they all do isnt exactly top tier players.


Ah..so you moved the goal post and then defend it.

Go back to your original claim. You said "most average players".
And now it's "top tier players".

Seems you're just making stuff up as you go.
11/14/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Brockthorn
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Tiny sample on some pserver that will die in a few months like they all do isnt exactly top tier players.


Ah..so you moved the goal post and then defend it.

Go back to your original claim. You said "most average players".
And now it's "top tier players".

Seems you're just making stuff up as you go.


And he's referencing pservers that have been up for years (and are adding more servers) as something "that will die in a few months". He's a troll, I'm putting him on ignore.
11/14/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Ghan
"Arguing about difficulty is mostly pointless"
Goes on to argue about difficulty anyway. Not sure if trolling or stupid. Either way I give this one a 6/10.


The post says that the games are so different that a direct comparison isn't valid, and elaborates why. This isn't complicated. I'm guessing you skimmed it without reading, then made some edgelord comment.
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Ah..so you moved the goal post and then defend it.

Go back to your original claim. You said "most average players".
And now it's "top tier players".

Seems you're just making stuff up as you go.


And he's referencing pservers that have been up for years (and are adding more servers) as something "that will die in a few months". He's a troll, I'm putting him on ignore.


Blizz will murder all popular pservers lol you are a bit naive if you think they arent getting a cease and desist letter prettyyy soon.
11/14/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Brockthorn
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Tiny sample on some pserver that will die in a few months like they all do isnt exactly top tier players.


Ah..so you moved the goal post and then defend it.

Go back to your original claim. You said "most average players".
And now it's "top tier players".

Seems you're just making stuff up as you go.


It seems you are confused, yes average players will cap a lot faster than they did in vanilla, and classic will be easier than vanilla. And yes, whatever few thousand scrubs do in a pserver isnt really of much concern, they are just looking to be medium sized fishes in tiny ponds.
A literal book, an over winded and lengthy book, could be written to address each and every difference between the current and original games. This is why every post on the subject seems incomplete.

An argument could easily be made that current game players take too much for granted. However, this does not mean the original game was flawed within this notion. There were other obvious flaws in the original game like itemization (which is why personal loot would not work in Classic). But the root of the original game was not flawed.

I encourage everyone to give Classic a go, to keep your urges on a low flame, and to admire just how different Azeroth OG is. For the original game IS Azeroth, not a dungeon or a battle. It is a beautiful thing.
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And he's referencing pservers that have been up for years (and are adding more servers) as something "that will die in a few months". He's a troll, I'm putting him on ignore.


Blizz will murder all popular pservers lol you are a bit naive if you think they arent getting a cease and desist letter prettyyy soon.
Unlikely. Most private servers are located in nations that do not bow to cease and desists. Any private server that hasn't promised to shut down on Classic release will continue to be unfazed by Blizzard's attempts to shut them down.
11/14/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Zenshigen
11/14/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Fyedora
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Clearly biased by saying that one game is not harder than the other, they are just fundamentally different games? o.O


Its the same game, just with an older, slower, more tedious version.

Being ignorant to the complete complexity of the varying differences between the two games is understandable.

OP's post is spot on. They are different games entirely and comparing them is a joke. Hence everything I said in other threads.
11/14/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Zenshigen
11/14/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Fyedora
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Clearly biased by saying that one game is not harder than the other, they are just fundamentally different games? o.O


Its the same game, just with an older, slower, more tedious version.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

Not even close, Modern WoW is an entirely different game; it has absolutely nothing in common with Vanilla excluding a few graphical armor / weapon models and even those are not truly the same because they are no longer the same shape / fitment / size as their parent model / skins.

And when I say they are entirely different I am not just saying that to make a point, but because its a fact.
Honestly, the argument is pointless. The forums are mostly split into two groups.

People who played vanilla, and quit because of changes, and people who play retail, and started after those changes. There are not many people left who stuck with the game from vanilla to retail.

Vanilla WoW was an MMORPG with some action game features, Retail WoW is an action RPG with a very elaborate lobby system.

Arguing that one was harder than the other is like arguing that Hearthstone is harder than retail WoW.

People being excited about classic WoW shouldn't concern retail players. Any increase in subscribers will only strengthen the WoW brand.

People thinking Classic is stupid shouldn't concern the people excited for classic. They don't want to play it? They think it's stupid? Who cares, it's not like you would have wanted them in there anyway.

The real kick in the teeth is going to be if Blizzard launches a version of classic that is so far from faithful that it satisfies no one. Because we should all know that this is going to be the excuse they need to go all scorched earth on the remaining private servers.
11/14/2018 09:28 AMPosted by Zenshigen
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But there is the entire 1-59 experience that includes dungeons all along the way.


Wich most average players will complete in 2 or 3 weeks.

No they don't. The average time to level is around 11 days played. This means your average classic player will have to play anywhere between 12 hours a day to 18. Good luck with that.
11/14/2018 01:25 PMPosted by Switzy
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Blizz will murder all popular pservers lol you are a bit naive if you think they arent getting a cease and desist letter prettyyy soon.
Unlikely. Most private servers are located in nations that do not bow to cease and desists. Any private server that hasn't promised to shut down on Classic release will continue to be unfazed by Blizzard's attempts to shut them down.


Actually with the release of Classic that may change in several European countries. I've heard France as one who would acknowledge copyright infringement IF Classic itself was in retail status.

However .. this is just rumors from random people on the internet. I did see that at least one popular pserver has openly stated they will be shutting down upon classic release.

I'm no lawyer though so wtf do i know
Zenshigen is one of the most pathetic people I've ever seen on an internet forum
I don't care about Retail. At this rate, I'm caring less and less about Classic also. At first I was going to play day one. Now, I'm content to wait a few months.

I just enjoy the conversation. Haha.
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Extreme casuals are a thing I guess.


I noticed you skipped over my post with some hard statistics.


You have none either and I leveled my vanilla toon to 60 in two weeks, it is not that hard. if you play all day you can do it in a week. Only very casual or clueless players will take months
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I noticed you skipped over my post with some hard statistics.


You have none either and I leveled my vanilla toon to 60 in two weeks, it is not that hard. if you play all day you can do it in a week. Only very casual or clueless players will take months


So the average player can "play all day" for one or "two weeks" and be level-capped in Vanilla? (???!!??!)

The world record for 1-60 speed leveling in Vanilla was something like 4 or 5 days of /played.

How do you people not realize how crazy you sound?
11/14/2018 05:21 PMPosted by Nufan
Honestly, the argument is pointless. The forums are mostly split into two groups.

People who played vanilla, and quit because of changes, and people who play retail, and started after those changes. There are not many people left who stuck with the game from vanilla to retail.

Vanilla WoW was an MMORPG with some action game features, Retail WoW is an action RPG with a very elaborate lobby system.

Arguing that one was harder than the other is like arguing that Hearthstone is harder than retail WoW.

People being excited about classic WoW shouldn't concern retail players. Any increase in subscribers will only strengthen the WoW brand.

People thinking Classic is stupid shouldn't concern the people excited for classic. They don't want to play it? They think it's stupid? Who cares, it's not like you would have wanted them in there anyway.

The real kick in the teeth is going to be if Blizzard launches a version of classic that is so far from faithful that it satisfies no one. Because we should all know that this is going to be the excuse they need to go all scorched earth on the remaining private servers.


Pretty sure some of the authentic pservers are hosted in Russia or Eastern Europe, so I doubt anyone in the USA could bring them down.

If Blizzard screws up classic, then the pservers will probably be better off for it. There are lots of people who only dipped their toes into the 1.12 pserver community because of the WoW Classic announcement a year ago, and now that they've got a taste for authentic Vanilla they're going to want it one way or another.
11/14/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Zenshigen
Its the same game, just with an older, slower, more tedious version.

Are you even interested in Classic? Why are you here?

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