Choice to deny Zappyboi.

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10/24/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Yersynia
Okay.

Look, I’ll take 1/4 out of 0/4. The way to get what you want here isn’t to say that this is a travesty of favouritism, but to encourage this sort of thing more broadly.

Not sure why people would want to opt out of the War of Thorns, though. Warsong gulch ULTRA MODE seemed like a pretty good Horde holiday.
Most people didn't enjoy murdering civilians and menacing Night Elves they were working alongside in Legion eight seconds ago.

Especially not while Blizzard is retweeting all this sad art of Night Elf mothers and children hiding from the big bad Horde. War of Thorns was much more for a different demographic, and... well, let's just say we're happy you enjoyed it.
10/24/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Kelrexia
Why are the first three not worthy of a player-initiated choice, but the latter so desperately needs one that they essentially emergency patch it into the build?


Because it's a drastically more important choice to be made? Whether or not to betray Sylvanas is something that's way more character-intensive than participating in a war, completing a mission, or following your leader's wishes.
10/24/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Veloran
10/24/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Kelrexia
Why are the first three not worthy of a player-initiated choice, but the latter so desperately needs one that they essentially emergency patch it into the build?


Because it's a drastically more important choice to be made? Whether or not to betray Sylvanas is something that's way more character-intensive than participating in a war, completing a mission, or following your leader's wishes.
But isn't this just another case of following your leader's wishes...?
Good, further suggests the truth behind cdevs assertions that this is not MoP 2.0. I have a feeling a lot of this forum will end up incredibly disappointed. Of course, what else is new.
10/24/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Yersynia
Okay.

Look, I’ll take 1/4 out of 0/4.


I can appreciate your point of view. My point of view is that a multi-billion dollar company with a decade and a half of experience with making this game can 4/4 it or GTFO.

If this was to be a new direction, it should have been in from the get go. The way Blizzard is handling it makes it look like a desperate, hastily conceived bandaid to peoples' complaints about betraying Sylvie...which then naturally makes people who had other complaints ask why their issue wasn't worth this treatment. Justifiably so, in my opinion.

10/24/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Veloran
Because it's a drastically more important choice to be made?


Irrelevant. It needs to be consistent. 04 or 4/4. 1/4, 2/4 and 3/4 are not acceptable.
10/24/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Grandblade
But isn't this just another case of following your leader's wishes...?


If the first iteration was "automatically stay loyal and turn away from Saurfang", yes, it would just be that. But it wasn't. In the first variation of the quests, the PC chooses to betray Sylvanas and join Saurfang without the player's input at all. That is a major shift.

It would be like instead of being told to go to Darkshore as a compromise, the PC is actually told not to and then does it anyway against Anduin's wishes. That creates a huge dissonance between the player and their avatar.

It's not like WoW has never had issues with this, but in this Saurfang scenario it's completely beyond the pale. It's not like you're just not doing something smart, or doing something bad because you're told to, it was making the PC a very proactive agent outside of the player's own control.

Like, just imagine if you got an auto-pop quest that has the PC suddenly thinking that Anduin should be overthrown for incompetence, so you go and look up Vanessa to get a Defias 3.0 rolling. It would be nonsensical.
I actually agree with Kelrexia on this. Now that they demonstrated they can do it, it needs at the very least to happen more often. I AM OVERJOYED THAT IT'S THERE, but like...for example, the Night Elf fanbase needs some way to vent their frustrations too.
10/24/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Liuv
10/24/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Tewdee
I still don't get why people justify Teldrassil. Conquering it was already on shoddy logic, burning it was even worse.


Because they really, really, really don't want another Garrosh.

So they defend the tree, defend Derek, defend blight, counter on every point because otherwise they'd have no reason to not just leave. And at the end of the day no one, especially no one here, really want to be so demoralized that they quit their hobby.
Hit the nail on the head.
10/24/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Darethy
I actually agree with Kelrexia on this. Now that they demonstrated they can do it, it needs at the very least to happen more often. I AM OVERJOYED THAT IT'S THERE, but like...for example, the Night Elf fanbase needs some way to vent their frustrations too.


TBH, this is part of why we can't have nice things. Multiplicative effect on labor and all that.
10/24/2018 05:46 PMPosted by Kelrexia
Irrelevant. It needs to be consistent.


You expect too much from a small indie company.

Seriously though, no, not irrelevant. The issues with Darkshore and the Night Elves are poor portrayals that are not suitably satisfactory. The player being forced to support Saurfang against their will is a brick through the narrative. It is more important to rectify the latter situation than the former.
10/24/2018 05:48 PMPosted by Darethy
I actually agree with Kelrexia on this.


We should probably mark the calendar or something.

Also I screencapped that and will use it for comedic and/or lewd purposes.
The problem was that Blizzard was still in the cocky "You think you want it, but you don't" stage with BfA back during the War of Thorns and such, riding the high they got themselves on during Legion.

Now we're much deeper into BfA and the criticisms and likely sub drops haven't ceased quietly like Blizz wanted to, so they're in the reluctant change stage.

I'm just wondering about when we'll go full selfie camera patch and "no new raid tier stage cause we're not even gonna work on this xpac anymore" stage.
<You have decided to neither follow Zekhan to Swamp of Sorrows, nor report this event back to Sylvanas. Instead, you find yourself longing to spend a sun-soaked afternoon relaxing, and you know just the spot. Sometimes, it's nice to let others take care of things.>

They data-mined an option to not side with either Sylvanas or Zappyboi and instead just go and enjoy a nice day at the steam pools.

Finally the option for those of us that just want to wash our hands of the whole thing!
10/24/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Veloran
10/24/2018 05:46 PMPosted by Kelrexia
Irrelevant. It needs to be consistent.


You expect too much from a small indie company.

Seriously though, no, not irrelevant. The issues with Darkshore and the Night Elves are poor portrayals that are not suitably satisfactory. The player being forced to support Saurfang against their will is a brick through the narrative. It is more important to rectify the latter situation than the former.


I call bs.

The night warrior scenario can be fixed easily by:

-replacing Belmont with a random forsaken captain so Tyrande can kill them off without taken a forsaken named npc away

-make it so that Nathanos outnumbers Tyrande and the Ally player 10 to 1 so Tyrande doesnt look like an incompetent idiot or nathanos overpowered, it'd be a simply matter of adding npcs that die automatically alongside the val'kyr

Yet an option to not betray sylvanas was coded and added on the fly after a week or two of complains.

At this point I can more or less assume actual malice from the devs- rather than just idiocy, sloth or lack of resources like before
10/24/2018 06:02 PMPosted by Cailias
I'm just wondering about when we'll go full selfie camera patch and "no new raid tier stage cause we're not even gonna work on this xpac anymore" stage.


Thing is, WoD was abandoned due to bad gameplay. The daily areas were boring, the Garrison was an empty pit too closely tied to progression to ignore, the hasty re-working of Draenor itself lead to sloppy quest flow and design and of course the utter dumpster that was Ashran etc... they knew they had a stinker before they ever launched it. Whereas with BfA its gameplay issues, while they certainly exist, aren't insurmountable in the same way. And even if they were the core systems of mythic+, raiding and PvP etc... Are a lot stronger then what we had in WoD.

We'll know for sure come BlizzCon when they talk plans for 8.2 and probably tease 8.3. But for my two cents? People predicting that BfA is going to be dumped are operating more on hope then facts. The story is hot garbage but it wasn't the story that got WoD canned and it wouldn't be the cause here either.
This option improves my stance on this expac, if by only a little.

I hope this sets a precedent going forward of giving players a small amount of agency to RP their character.

Wish we had an option like this back in MOP, but Blizzard was so dead set on tearing the Horde apart with a forced rebellion arc... better late than never I s'pose.
10/24/2018 06:17 PMPosted by Liuv
Whereas with BfA its gameplay issues, while they certainly exist, aren't insurmountable in the same way.


It certainly has caused quite the buzz regardless. Moreso than anything in Legion did, given how it has driven them to try and do more and more lawyerspeak than usual to try and placate people.

And I was mostly exaggerating when comparing it to scrapping WoD.
10/24/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Gharion
The night warrior scenario can be fixed easily by:

-replacing Belmont with a random forsaken captain so Tyrande can kill them off without taken a forsaken named npc away

-make it so that Nathanos outnumbers Tyrande and the Ally player 10 to 1 so Tyrande doesnt look like an incompetent idiot or nathanos overpowered, it'd be a simply matter of adding npcs that die automatically alongside the val'kyr


I like these. I liked how vicious the Night Elves were portrayed in Warcraft 3 and keep hoping Blizzard takes them back to that.

Won't hold my breath or I'll turn even more blue than I already am.
10/24/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Liuv
10/24/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Tewdee
I still don't get why people justify Teldrassil. Conquering it was already on shoddy logic, burning it was even worse.


Because they really, really, really don't want another Garrosh.

So they defend the tree, defend Derek, defend blight, counter on every point because otherwise they'd have no reason to not just leave. And at the end of the day no one, especially no one here, really want to be so demoralized that they quit their hobby.
The sad truth, though I enjoy beating up the fat water people and wood elves.
There's a third choice now:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288145.8/the-fate-of-saurfang-questline-player-choice-now-added-8-1-spoilers

<You have decided to neither follow Zekhan to Swamp of Sorrows, nor report this event back to Sylvanas. Instead, you find yourself longing to spend a sun-soaked afternoon relaxing, and you know just the spot. Sometimes, it's nice to let others take care of things.>

It's perfect, my rogue will pick that one. Honor? Loyalty? Pfff, vacation time? Yes.

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