BFA Unholy Death Knight Feedback (Cont.)

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Old thread link - https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20767658114?page=1

Current talking points

Single Target Damage
ST is passive feels unrewarding ... ST Damage is extremely lackluster

Army of the dead
Army of the dead not strong enough to warrant an 8-10 min cd.
Has lost its "powerful moment" feeling
Suggested merging aotd and apocalypse together and slightly increasing its CD

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20767658114?page=18#post-348

Armies of the Dammed not very good in raids.
Does not succeed where it should on long encounters.

Death Coil
Death Coil RP cost being too high. Not casted as much as we did in legion (pre unholy frenzy buff) since the removal of key artifact traits. (Double doom,Runic tattoos)

T90/T60 Talent row offer no choice
With Defile and Pestilence giving little to no gain on ST(DND on ST?) compared to Epidemic.

Could be argued epidemic should be baseline(Work with Sudden Doom Procs).
Could be argued Infected Claws should be baseline as well

Soul Reaper is extremely strong in every situation.
Harbinger of Doom/ Pestilent Pustules severely under tuned in comparison.

Also talked about Unholy Blight having no use currently. Gcd makes it annoying to use

Suggested turning Unholy Blight into new version of Necrotic Plague
with wounds extending its duration/increasing its damage

Spec specific azerite traits not very good in practice
Festering Doom, Bone Spike Graveyard, Cankerous wounds, Harrowwing Decay, Last Surprise etc

Meaning anytime we get Azerite traits we default to neutral ones unless its Festermight. Making azerite upgrades harder to come by

Would like to see more Wound/VP traits instead of Pet/Festering strike ones

Dark Arbiter/Summon Garg
Whether or not it should return to its Abt form (2 min cd/20 sec duration) or return baseline or both
I agree with urio
Any feedback on 8.1 changes made to unholy PvP? We get new talents: Life and Death, Necromancer's Bargain and Raise Abomination. But lose some as well such as Ghoulish Monstrosity (army of the damned is not usable in arena in any shape or form now?) and few others. How does dk community feel about these changes?
Can definitely support the statements listed.
Would also be nice to get our old thread extended...
what if IC was baseline and Unholy frenzy made us pop 2 wounds on our primary target with SS?
10/25/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Violenthug
Any feedback on 8.1 changes made to unholy PvP? We get new talents: Life and Death, Necromancer's Bargain and Raise Abomination. But lose some as well such as Ghoulish Monstrosity (army of the damned is not usable in arena in any shape or form now?) and few others. How does dk community feel about these changes?

Life and Death looks decent at first glance

Necromancers Bargain could be really good depending on whether or not it can be dispelled. Id say most would prefer if it couldnt but we'll see i suppose.

Raise abomination is weird. Not sure where and when this would even be needed in arena. Maybe if it can grip with its chain? But even then hrmm im not sure. Might be just as bad as Ghoulish Monstrosity currently is.

10/25/2018 10:53 AMPosted by Stormdk
what if IC was baseline and Unholy frenzy made us pop 2 wounds on our primary target with SS?

Infected Claws baseline is interesting for sure ... could make a case for that

Could maybe add that second part to Pestilent Pustules instead of Frenzy...

I know many people hated it but i actually quite enjoyed playing Castigator during the duration of EN. So i personally wouldnt mind it coming back in some way.
We need more single target damage for sure. This is a huge one. 50% buff on death coil and scourge and 30% on fester/popping wounds. This would be a fair and super helpful boost.
10/25/2018 01:30 PMPosted by Paint
We need more single target damage for sure. This is a huge one. 50% buff on death coil and scourge and 30% on fester/popping wounds. This would be a fair and super helpful boost.

Dmg on scourge/wounds would buff our AoE too, which would make us even stronger for M+ in terms of dmg. We need just ST daamge, which leaves only DC, apoc itself, and adding a primary target system to SS for dnd.
as well as certain ST talents, but ones like garg arent taken unless you're memeing
From a PvP standpoint we need major single target increases as well.
10/25/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Stormdk
10/25/2018 01:30 PMPosted by Paint
We need more single target damage for sure. This is a huge one. 50% buff on death coil and scourge and 30% on fester/popping wounds. This would be a fair and super helpful boost.

Dmg on scourge/wounds would buff our AoE too, which would make us even stronger for M+ in terms of dmg. We need just ST daamge, which leaves only DC, apoc itself, and adding a primary target system to SS for dnd.
as well as certain ST talents, but ones like garg arent taken unless you're memeing


Wounds would barely have any impact on aoe since it requires a talent and its only usable every minute or so.
Remove festering wounds mechanic and I will finally show some interest in playing unholy.
Good summery OP.

10/25/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Stormdk
Dmg on scourge/wounds would buff our AoE too, which would make us even stronger for M+ in terms of dmg.


https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards

Only Feral has worse rep numbers wise. SS being 'too strong' isn't an issue as long as Rogues can Blade Flurry/FOK cleave, Warriors can use Sweeping Strikes and cleave 40k+ MS crits, and my DH can knock out 35k on a Blade Dance, one target. Each target that gets hit takes that 35k BD.

Scourge Strike in DND is none of those things; it is very conditional, hits like a wet noodle and the spec itself actually needs Teeming affix to even look passable in aoe. We don't have the power in our DOT that we did in Legion, not even close so I'm not sure why people are worried about our AOE being 'too strong.' Especially when low Scourge Strike damage is one of the main factors in our bad single target damage. You don't use any ability more often on a single target encounter.
So uh, any updates on that All Will Serve revamp that was supposed to show up for 8.1?
We must have misread. Clearly they meant 9.1?
I feel like bursting wounds isn't even that impactfull and my top dmg ability is auto attack. Is this the same for everyone else?
10/25/2018 11:27 PMPosted by Ryudaraku
So uh, any updates on that All Will Serve revamp that was supposed to show up for 8.1?


AWS had its animation bug fixed on ptr that was caused by the AI fix they did in bfa pre patch.

So looks like they are at least working it on.
Unsure if they are still considering revamping the entire talent though.
But given AWS's run so far id like if it was changed completely.
10/26/2018 12:14 AMPosted by Aeondighte
I feel like bursting wounds isn't even that impactfull and my top dmg ability is auto attack. Is this the same for everyone else?


Now I'm far from the best UH dk but I do fairly well. Check out my numbers for heroic Zul as far as 'passive dmg' is concerned.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4gnwJtMHWLYKj9b3#fight=28&type=damage-done&source=7

Nearly all of it.
Copying this from a thread i posted into the DK forums...

Unholy is currently a very well designed spec. I like how this spec has 3 main sources of damage. These being pets, diseases, and popping wounds.

I feel each of our damage talent rows should allow us to improve on one of these 3 sources of damage. Allow the player to specialize in one of these sources of damage. I personally like having an undead army, some like running a rot playstyle, and some just like popping zits.

Some of our talent rows are redundant and don't give us much a choice. Currently we have:

Tier 1:
Infected Claws - Wounds
All will serve - Pets (good!)
Clawing Shadows - Ranged attack

Tier 2:
Bursting Sores - Wounds
Ebon Fever - Disease
Unholy Blight - Another disease and a talent that no one takes. This should be a talent that enhances or adds to our undead army. E.G. The death knight summons a swarms of shades to attack the enemy for 15 seconds.

Tier 4
Pestilent Pustules - Wounds
Harbinger of Doom - Few use this. Make this a pet talent. E.G. Runic power spenders have a chance to summon a ghoul. Or a new ability that allows us to dump runic power to summon a skeleton.
Soul Reaper - DoT and rune generator.

Tier 6
Pestilence - Wounds
Defile - Another redundant DnD talent. Rework this into a pet talent. E.G. Death and decay periodically raises a ghoul during its duration.
Epidemic - Disease

Tier 7
Army of the Damned - Pet
Unholy Frenzy - Wounds/Haste
Summon Gargoyle - Pet and redundant - Should be worked into a talent that adds or enhances our diseases.

I feel making changes to allow us to specialize in our favorite part of unholy would make this spec a clear winner in class design.

On a side note, I'm very happy about the new magus azerite trait coming in 8.1. Can't wait to run it with army of the damned. And if you have the gear, try last surprise and army of the damned and spam it to your hearts content, its a lot of fun.
10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Brandone
Clawing Shadows - Ranged attack


IMO this really needs to be a baseline replacement for scourge strike, the interesting mechanic of SS was removed when you no longer needed dots on the target to get the shadow damage. CS+wounds functions the same, but works better with unholy in general.

necrosis could replace it as a talent, given that it was a big gameplay changer for unholy.

10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Brandone
Unholy Blight - Another disease and a talent that no one takes.


this is because it competes with ebon fevor, why bother with a 45 second CD when EFVP does nearly the same damage, and is spamable.

10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Brandone
Harbinger of Doom - Few use this. Make this a pet talent. E.G. Runic power spenders have a chance to summon a ghoul. Or a new ability that allows us to dump runic power to summon a skeleton.
Soul Reaper - DoT and rune generator.


i suspect harbinger will get more use towards the end of the expac when we are all soft capped on haste and taking gargoyle/AotD.

soul reaper should be baseline, and reworked back into an execute:
if soul reaper hits a target below 45% health, the cooldown is reduced to 8 seconds and the haste buff is triggered.

this would up our damage and speed significantly without making another execute like big hit spell, and part of your rotation sub 45% would be maintaining the SR dot and haste buff.

for a talent replacement, the MoP version of blood tap would work well, providing a different more engaging method of managing rune regen compared to PP or harbinger.

10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Brandone
Defile - Another redundant DnD talent. Rework this into a pet talent. E.G. Death and decay periodically raises a ghoul during its duration.
Epidemic - Disease


defile was better in legion with the mastery buff, without that it really is just a recolor of DnD. the mastery buff would also make it competitive with epidemic. defile was nerfed because the devs don't want us using defile or DnD on ST fights, which i don't really see why, its generally not that big of a deal, and has been off an on in our rotations for years.

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