The Ion Response

Classic Discussion
11/07/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Spirals
We understand you don't want sharding


You think you don't, but you do!
Absolute crap. The ion explanation was so sincere and genuine that it boggles my mind people are still arguing against it.

To put it as simply as i can.

Competition for limited resources is a CRUCIAL ASPECT of classic. If everyone gets a thorium vein then everything derived from thorium diminishes dramatically in value. This upsets the very fragile economy. Money sinks go down the pan.
If everyone has access to world bosses, the value of taking down those bosses go down the pan. People stop caring. A crucial component of organised world pvp and guild identity falls to the wayside.
The game simply does not want you to just randomly group up for a kazaak kill a la wod using an add on. It wants horde and alliance competing for those kills. Becuase they actually matter. And the rewards matter. Those rewards are powerful, and if we all have them, it upsets balance in raiding, the absolute crown jewel in classic.

This is someone so clearly aware of the affect of unintended consequences, that its nothing short of blind ignorance to assume he's being duplicitous. Why on earth would he bork the game he very likely wants to play and understands at a far deeper level than most people on this forum.
It's 14 years later - they can't get it EXACTLY how it was. Tech has changed, things have changed.

I'm no changes, but, as I've said before, I understand why some thing are tweaked a bit differently. We can't expect them to go against common sense good business practices.

If people aren't going to play because they can't get the font exactly right...they weren't going to play anyway.

The way I look at it is this: My mom makes the best meatballs I've ever had. Every time she makes them they are a tiny bit different than the last batch. It's so hard to get everything EXACTLY as the way it was. But, it's so so so close that the average person wouldn't even notice.

And sharding isn't just for tourists. It's to prevent the :ree: from happening when there's crowded zones the first two weeks and people inevitably rage and leave. The people that visit this forum are so small in % of who will play.

I would prefer no sharding. I would prefer to just wait it out and do what I can. That being said, I'm not going to waste time and energy being upset about something that won't really impact my gaming.

The UI doesn't bother me, either. I'll use addons. I get why people want it, it should stay the way it was as close as they can get it.

I don't remember seeing anything about new animations.

I'm not a fan of the loot system. BUT - I don't think it will be an issue for people. I also don't think all of the sudden there's going to be some massive selling of dungeon gear and everyone needing for friends. It didn't happen when it was implemented. Why would it happen now?

Plus, if you're that worried about it? Start your own group - give yourself master looter and make everyone /roll.
11/07/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Spirals
We understand you don't want sharding
We understand you don't want loot trading
We understand you don't want new spell animations
We understand you want the old quest texts
We understand you want the old UI options

...that said

We don't care and we're gonna do it however we want.


Why were you ever under the illusion that they wouldn't?
11/07/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Mogar
I actually think the devs don't want to do it. Ythisens made a discord post where she(?) said she didn't want it, but it's a necessary evil.


This is again, a money grab forced by Activision. However, in this case, it happens to align with the wants of the fans. (Or a portion thereof)

Unlike the Diablo Immortal cashgrab, which NO ONE wanted.
Imagine if Blizzard announced an awesome new expansion or even a WoW 2 that returned to old wow design philosophy... but they only released it in China.

The Blizzard devs want NO part in Classic, but let's face it... they don;t want any part in WoW at all... they are trying to had to get the game to be all RNG and minimize how much effort they have to invest in each expansion.
11/07/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Mogar
I actually think the devs don't want to do it. Ythisens made a discord post where she(?) said she didn't want it, but it's a necessary evil. I don't agree it's a necessary evil (private servers have proven this). But the fact is once it's in the game, it'll never be gone from the game. The entitled players this is meant to appeal to will make sure it never is taken out.

It's something that will destroy the early community...by the way, the formation of the community is arguably the most important time. And it's during that time in which the community will be separate and segmented. Therefore, sharding does the most damage at launch. And it's something that will seep into the game. The devs will keep pushing when to take it away. Players will say they don't want it gone. The very same Current WoW players who get to play Classic for free. But they don't want to deal with the inconveniences. If Blizzard removes those inconveniences and gives credence to that attitude at launch, which they will do if they add sharding, the flood gates are now open. Pandora's Box has been opened. That design decision will dictate the expectations of players. And not just on this issue.


Sure seems like blizzard is half assing it.

Total buzzkill.

Understandable though.
They always say "we understand" and follow up with "..but we feel" as if their !@#$ don't stink... these devs are seriously clueless. Look at various articles for diablo and such "developers are confused as to why theres so much hate for new diablo game"... they are just so out of touch with their players and that is a deadly way for a business whos success is reliant on their player base
11/08/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Morwynn
They always say "we understand" and follow up with "..but we feel" as if their !@#$ don't stink... these devs are seriously clueless. Look at various articles for diablo and such "developers are confused as to why theres so much hate for new diablo game"... they are just so out of touch with their players and that is a deadly way for a business whos success is reliant on their player base


They do understand. But, that doesn't mean everything people want makes sense. They understand why we don't want sharding. They also understand that there is potentially hundreds of thousands who will complain and react and leave and not come back if they can't kill a plainstrider in Mulgore cause it's packed with 300 baby tauren at once.

Those are the things devs worry about. We see our own personal scope, not the big picture. The fact of the matter is in the big picture starter area only sharding makes more sense than the few thousand active reddit or forum posters that are filled with vitriol about it.

Your view is just as out of touch. It's unrealistic to expect that because you don't mind waiting an hour and a half for a chest respawn for the booty key in Durotar that thousands of others are going to be okay with it. Because there's a 7-10min respawn timer on that. The orc/troll starting area is very popular. It isn't unrealistic to expect people to queue up for that item and be trying to ninja it as fast as they can. Which then you get the raging, name calling, and toxicity. THAT is actually the deadly business model.
11/07/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Rush
Sharding is a deal breaker for a vast majority of vanilla enthusiasts. IF they're going to put in sharding they may as well cancel the project altogether.


See you on launch day
11/07/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Mogar
Ythisens made a discord post where she(?) said she didn't want it, but it's a necessary evil.


I agree with your post, and I want to point out why Ythisens is full of it. It's really two things. First, people or companies don't do things they don't want to do. The law prevents coercion. Second, there's no such thing as a necessary evil. Evil is a choice and it's never necessary. Definitionally, it requires that you know what good is and then choose to do bad in spite of it.

So they're communicating to me that they know that to not shard is good, but they're thinking about doing bad anyway. It speaks volumes about how they see themselves in their relationship with us. It's really the sort of classical paternalism that you see when companies simply stop listening to their customers. It's not good.
11/08/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Morwynn
They always say "we understand" and follow up with "..but we feel" as if their !@#$ don't stink... these devs are seriously clueless. Look at various articles for diablo and such "developers are confused as to why theres so much hate for new diablo game"... they are just so out of touch with their players and that is a deadly way for a business whos success is reliant on their player base
https://media.giphy.com/media/moMeVuAZ4G7THNQp9l/giphy.gif
11/08/2018 08:10 AMPosted by Mogar
11/08/2018 07:24 AMPosted by Morwynn
They always say "we understand" and follow up with "..but we feel" as if their !@#$ don't stink... these devs are seriously clueless. Look at various articles for diablo and such "developers are confused as to why theres so much hate for new diablo game"... they are just so out of touch with their players and that is a deadly way for a business whos success is reliant on their player base
https://media.giphy.com/media/moMeVuAZ4G7THNQp9l/giphy.gif


Lullllllllllllllll
They realize more people will stick around longer if they have an easier time starting out.
Over crowding mob stealing and long repawn timers are all deterents especially when the majority of folks that are going to play have only played post Cata content.

While i hate the idea if all we get are sharded starting zones, loot trading and hopefully limited bnet chat then i think we are pretty lucky knowing Blizzards penchant for mucking around with stuff
I must have missed where spell animations were being considered to not be changed back to Vanilla animations. Was that actually said?

Some spells (hunter's mark) are changed, but charge still has the red tail behind you when you charge (on the demo), for instance.

I would think they would all be changed back to vanilla animations.
11/08/2018 06:52 AMPosted by Tristany
The Blizzard devs want NO part in Classic, but let's face it... they don;t want any part in WoW at all... they are trying to had to get the game to be all RNG and minimize how much effort they have to invest in each expansion


Although it sounds hyperbolic, I think it illustrates the truth that there is a decline in passion for the games the devs are working on and instead of leaving, they like the paycheck and stay on.

There is no other explanation for the disconnect w/ the Diablo team and the fan base. A passionate dev team would never consider pimping out such a beloved IP to a Chinese based mobile cash grab company.

You would never see Ferrari pimping out the Ferrari name to make some cheap $25,000 modest sports sedan w/ the Ferrari logo because there would be a market and they could make loads of $$. The refusal to make a cheap Ferrari would never have to be decided based on market research if it would hurt he brand long term. They would just refuse to do it because they love Ferrari and it would pain them to see cheap sport sedans everywhere sporting the Ferrari name. They are in tune with their customer base.

Thats why the fans and devs dont understand each other. The fans still have passion for Blizzard games, and to many of the devs, each IP is just a revenue stream.

Any dev remaining who still has passion for blizzard just isn't speaking up.
11/08/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Tuathaa
They realize more people will stick around longer if they have an easier time starting out.
Over crowding mob stealing and long repawn timers are all deterents especially when the majority of folks that are going to play have only played post Cata content.
Yeah, I mean in 2004 the rough start really destroyed the game. No one stuck around. Who knows...maybe WoW would have been a success if they had sharded the launch.

But seriously...if they're crafting Classic to appeal to the post-Cata crowd, they've already failed.
I really believe that sharding would be a major mistake that they will not be able to walk back at all.
11/08/2018 08:29 AMPosted by Mogar
11/08/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Tuathaa
They realize more people will stick around longer if they have an easier time starting out.
Over crowding mob stealing and long repawn timers are all deterents especially when the majority of folks that are going to play have only played post Cata content.
Yeah, I mean in 2004 the rough start really destroyed the game. No one stuck around. Who knows...maybe WoW would have been a success if they had sharded the launch.

But seriously...if they're crafting Classic to appeal to the post-Cata crowd, they've already failed.


With moder servers your not going to have the same issues.
There might be some lagging on the users end but the servers shouldnt crash. Especially since the realms wont be linked together like BfA is.

It is going to be interesting to see what blizzard defines as a starting area.
If it just the intial character entrance area there is still going to be some major competion for mobs in Durotar and Elwyn Forest. Well pretty much in all the areas around the major cities
11/07/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Mëdicinal
11/07/2018 09:41 PMPosted by Abada
...
You'll feel like a tourist too if Blizz decides to pass on launch-only sharding, opens up extra realms to handle the initial surge, and you are unfortunate enough to have chosen the one that's a ghost town once the dust has settled..


And what if it doesn't die and they are forced to shard your realm forever?

Imo just make realms like Illidan 1 illidan 2 illidan 3 and if they die down, merge them. If they don't, leave them. Allow only one name to be taken across all 3 so no one has to name change when they merge. Just a thought.


I don't think that's how it works.
11/08/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Ezkatka
11/07/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Rush
Sharding is a deal breaker for a vast majority of vanilla enthusiasts. IF they're going to put in sharding they may as well cancel the project altogether.


See you on launch day
Like I said before, yes they'll likely be playing on launch to see how the game runs and whether or not it's worth playing. But after that first month, when things like loot trading and sharding show their impact, people are going to end their subscription. It's not about getting people to just play on launch for Blizz, it's about getting people to stay as long as possible

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