Classic Sharding? Is it really that bad?

Classic Discussion
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11/09/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Bláys
11/09/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Uunruk
In my opinion, it's not that bad at all, especially within the scope they mentioned. At worst, I'll have to "endure" sharding for a week or two, and only through level 10. Since I won't be attempting to level more than one character past level 5 in the first couple of weeks, it will really only affect me for one character, since to be honest, I don't pay attention to who else is around me for the first 5 levels anyway.

For me, it's a non-issue.


This is not true. Sharding is currently zone-wide, in every zone, on every server. Their servers determine X and then decide if Y (sharding) needs to be applied. How they determine X is unknown, but clearly people have been able to trigger it. They do not turn it off forever because of something. They MIGHT tweak the ways that it's triggered to try and scale it back; however, they have to use sharding on retail (and classic currently) because of how the realms are setup now.

Additionally, sharding in a Zone is not just a few weeks or "only starting zones". For instance, Durotar and barrens include some pretty lively areas that are going to suffer from sharding, as far as community is concerned. Especially if higher-level players decide to return to the ara to help friends, assist newbies, or PVP outright.

Finally if sharding is a non-issue, and you have no plans to level, why wouldn't you level a toon on retail? Clearly people are passionate about this project. If you're not passionate about it, why bother stepping into the argument? Stepping into a discussion or argument only to declair that you have no opinion is silly.


What are you rambling about? You might want to reread what I said, and as far as your last paragraph, I can't even figure out what the hell you are even saying.
it should be used at a bare minimum

just enough to keep servers from crashing
11/08/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Bladetrance
God awful for classic, and leaves the door open to be used further in the future.
And this is the underlying complaint. Most of the responses I've read do not argue that sharding is bad. They (we) just don't trust that Blizzard will remove it completely from the game once the rush is over, and don't trust them to not use it anywhere else in the game.

There is too much history of them saying one thing and doing another, sometimes the exact opposite (remember Karabor?), under the banner "Nothing is written in stone; everything is subject to change." In other words, a blank check to do whatever they want to do regardless of what they've said.

Is sharding really that bad? Depending on how it's applied, no. Do you TRUST Blizzard to keep their word? I don't, and it's hard to support sharding with Blizzard's history and the potential for them abusing it.
Yes it is that bad... for launch, not terrible... for the entire game; destroys what made vanilla awesome, which is the competition over finite amounts of resources.
11/08/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Fallanaa
It is not that bad. Especially since it's just in the starting zones, and only for a limited window at release.

It is actually beneficial, and better than having hundreds of people in one tiny area all competing for quest objectives.

The people that are complaining about it just can't see how much work Blizz is actually putting into this, how good it's looking, and just need something to complain about, or they aren't happy. They weren't going to stick around anyway.


The bigger issue most players have against it is that they don't trust blizzard to only use it in the starting zones (i.e 1-15 or something depending on density, like the main leveling curve day 1 will likely have to be sharded)

So instead of having a discussion about their mistrust they are just blinding REE'ing with No Sharding, without actually having a meaningful discussion about the alternatives or options.

11/09/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Starrs
Yes it is that bad... for launch, not terrible... for the entire game; destroys what made vanilla awesome, which is the competition over finite amounts of resources.


I think almost everyone can agree with that, no one wants to see it implemented when its not nessicary, it should only be used to get over the initial hump of the huge spike in population all servers are going to see when they initially launch, and primarily and more then likely will only be in the lower tier zones since thats were 90% of the tourist players are going to start their characters and stop playing their characters after they spend 4-5 hours trying to hit level 10
It blows my mind that some people would rather have sharding than dynamic spawns.
11/09/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Starrs
It blows my mind that some people would rather have sharding than dynamic spawns.

Dynamic spawns just don't fix all the issues, and don't provide a very authentic experience either. Specially with the sort of numbers that these servers will be boasting.

Dynamic spawns can be abused to enable extreme power leveling
Dynamic spawns can be frusterating in lower density areas of the map where players are struggling to get through caves or running back to their body after dieing to find everything respawned.
Elite zones can be incredibly frustrating (Redridge ones for instance) when respawns are turned too high.

Dynamic spawns sound good when you have 50 players running around a field killing stuff, but when you start to get into more 1 way in 1 way out area's it just feels super unnatural and unvanilla.

Only thing I would be alright seeing dynamic spawns on is damn quest items that take like 2-3 minutes to respawn after someone picks it up
Classic is classic and its classically classic cuz of the warts and all. When you want Classic but you get Classic Lite w/Sharding its not the same thing. Its the same BS you're trying to get away from but its shoved back under your face because ActiBlizz comes first and what you want is second.

Would it be the worst thing in the world....of Warcraft? No, but that's hardly the point. And they don't have (for good reason) the same level of customer faith to lean on like they've had in the past.
11/09/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Iseededpeple
Classic is classic and its classically classic cuz of the warts and all. When you want Classic but you get Classic Lite w/Sharding its not the same thing. Its the same BS you're trying to get away from but its shoved back under your face because ActiBlizz comes first and what you want is second.

Would it be the worst thing in the world....of Warcraft? No, but that's hardly the point. And they don't have (for good reason) the same level of customer faith to lean on like they've had in the past.


I don't agree with you as classic wont be 100% the same as it was in 2004-2006? Why? Cause times changed that simple. Access to information has changed. Mechanics of fights are detailed in writing. It's already been done before you're not walking to the unknown like you were then. Regardless if you never played in that time. Classic launches you google anything you wanna know and you'll find a answer in today's world. Back then thottbot was being filled out with comments as the game grew.

So out of the gate it will not be the same. But it can be. close...pretty damn close.

Sharding is the talk for now but give it time no one will talk about it. Within the year everyone freaked out about Battle.net integration. Fast forward. Water cooler... we're using the battle.net integration system. Few weeks go by no one talks about it. All these issues are not really issues. There small concerns. They already explain why they would need to use something even though they don't want to, it's just a tool they can implement in a worst case scenario.

You clearly have some faith and desire to play blizzard games or you wouldn't be here commenting. At the end of the day we're all passionate gamers. It's our game to play but not our game to make. It will work out in the end and we will all enjoy classic. I promise you.
11/08/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Thepyroamos
Without a huge crowd in starting zone, it's not a classic release, it's part of classic.


Do you people realize how populated the starting areas will be?

Caps on servers were 3 to 3.5k in vanilla we are now talking 10 to 15k cap.

6 starting areas in total assuming races are 100% balanced that is on the low end 1666 people per starting area compared to vanilla's 583.

That's assuming servers use a 10k pop cap. If they use a 15k pop cap that's 2500 people per starting area or ALMOST AN ENTIRE FREAKING SERVERS POPULATION CAP DURING VANILLA.

THAT IS NOT VANILLA LIKE.

Do you anti sharding people understand math? Or are you all in belief that blizzard is going to make like 50 classic servers.
11/08/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Thepyroamos
Without a huge crowd in starting zone, it's not a classic release, it's part of classic.


Except we are going have 50 times? over the amount of people login in on launch.
If you want authentic launch, sharding would bring you closer to the actual amount of people that were in game on launch
11/09/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Deadbodyman
11/08/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Thepyroamos
Without a huge crowd in starting zone, it's not a classic release, it's part of classic.


Except we are going have 50 times? over the amount of people login in on launch.
If you want authentic launch, sharding would bring you closer to the actual amount of people that were in game on launch


I agree.
11/08/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Thepyroamos
Without a huge crowd in starting zone, it's not a classic release, it's part of classic.


Do you people realize how populated the starting areas will be?

Caps on servers were 3 to 3.5k in vanilla we are now talking 10 to 15k cap.

6 starting areas in total assuming races are 100% balanced that is on the low end 1666 people per starting area compared to vanilla's 583.

That's assuming servers use a 10k pop cap. If they use a 15k pop cap that's 2500 people per starting area or ALMOST AN ENTIRE FREAKING SERVERS POPULATION CAP DURING VANILLA.

THAT IS NOT VANILLA LIKE.

Do you anti sharding people understand math? Or are you all in belief that blizzard is going to make like 50 classic servers.


Actually it was better than "vanilla like".
Servers held up quite well IMHO. Remember this is not 2004 anymore. I would hope Blizzard has new current spec'd servers.
There was some lag and a few crashes here and there and a rollback I believe.
But it was awesome seeing so many players in the world..totally awesome.
And then watch the server population climb higher and higher as the day went on.
Very memorable and I'm glad I had a chance to experience it.

I got 5 toons to level 5, learned professions and parked them at the inn.

Oh and no queues either.
No sharding.
11/09/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Seraca
11/08/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Thepyroamos
Without a huge crowd in starting zone, it's not a classic release, it's part of classic.


Do you people realize how populated the starting areas will be?

Caps on servers were 3 to 3.5k in vanilla we are now talking 10 to 15k cap.

6 starting areas in total assuming races are 100% balanced that is on the low end 1666 people per starting area compared to vanilla's 583.

That's assuming servers use a 10k pop cap. If they use a 15k pop cap that's 2500 people per starting area or ALMOST AN ENTIRE FREAKING SERVERS POPULATION CAP DURING VANILLA.

THAT IS NOT VANILLA LIKE.

Do you anti sharding people understand math? Or are you all in belief that blizzard is going to make like 50 classic servers.


Straw man. You have no idea what the server numbers could be with current tech and hardware options. Might be that they could fit 9000 people on a server or 900. No one knows.
sharding may be important at launch to maximize the server cap so that servers arent left for dead once all the looky-loo's quit by the time they hit lvl 10
11/09/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Bláys
11/09/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Seraca
...

Do you people realize how populated the starting areas will be?

Caps on servers were 3 to 3.5k in vanilla we are now talking 10 to 15k cap.

6 starting areas in total assuming races are 100% balanced that is on the low end 1666 people per starting area compared to vanilla's 583.

That's assuming servers use a 10k pop cap. If they use a 15k pop cap that's 2500 people per starting area or ALMOST AN ENTIRE FREAKING SERVERS POPULATION CAP DURING VANILLA.

THAT IS NOT VANILLA LIKE.

Do you anti sharding people understand math? Or are you all in belief that blizzard is going to make like 50 classic servers.


Straw man. You have no idea what the server numbers could be with current tech and hardware options. Might be that they could fit 9000 people on a server or 900. No one knows.


Crazy pop servers 5-10k players imo isn't healthy either. Having 2-4x the orginal limit with fighter over one world boss doesn't seem vanilla like either. Most servers back in 04-06 only had 2-3 guilds that could really compete for the world bosses.
I'd rather stand around with a bunch of players I know, chatting away as the server crashes knowing that when the servers come back up 10-15 minutes later we'll be able to get back to our conversation than to never see those people in 2 hours of game play because the server technology decided we shouldn't get to play together.

Communities are formed around repeat encounters and shared experiences among members. It's something I experience in other games that helps to keep me invested on those games.

I haven't been invested in WoW in years partly because those things don't happen with sharding. Classic was a chance to restore what the game once had but Blizzard evidently isn't interested.
11/09/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Bláys
11/09/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Seraca
...

Do you people realize how populated the starting areas will be?

Caps on servers were 3 to 3.5k in vanilla we are now talking 10 to 15k cap.

6 starting areas in total assuming races are 100% balanced that is on the low end 1666 people per starting area compared to vanilla's 583.

That's assuming servers use a 10k pop cap. If they use a 15k pop cap that's 2500 people per starting area or ALMOST AN ENTIRE FREAKING SERVERS POPULATION CAP DURING VANILLA.

THAT IS NOT VANILLA LIKE.

Do you anti sharding people understand math? Or are you all in belief that blizzard is going to make like 50 classic servers.


Straw man. You have no idea what the server numbers could be with current tech and hardware options. Might be that they could fit 9000 people on a server or 900. No one knows.


But we know the game was programed to produce x amount of enemies, items spawns for x people on a server. If you triple the number of people you screw up the entire game.

Unless you want dynamic spawns you need sharding. you have to pick one

I dont care what one they choose but it has to be one, and since dynamic spaws mess with the 1.12 data its going to be sharding unless we come up with an idea
11/08/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Excentríc
So I just wanted to add my opinion to the on going trail of negative comments toward sharding. If you don't agree with classic sharding by all means I don't disagree with you but come up with a suggestion or some solution to be put in place.

I made a video explaining my opinion about sharding and talked about different options. But in the end early sharding( IE. early zones for a short period of time) is the best thing presented at this time to deal with the overflow of traffic we expect to see early on release.

Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znsb-1Z4VfI&feature=youtu.be

I 100% want a authentic experience but understand some things will have to change to make this work. I do not think if they implement early zone sharding for a few days-week majority of the player base once there out of that early zone sharding will even think about it. I feel like since we have a lot of time between now and classic a lot of people are letting there emotions get the best of them and not realistically thinking about the small impact it would have overall compared to other options. I welcome any civil comments or suggestions. My video goes into more detail and other options as well.
Gonna leave this here

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769589002

I've gone over most of the aspects.

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