Azerite =/= Legion Leggos

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
The live Azerite Armor system offers no replacement for artifact abilities and Legion legendaries. The Azerite armor system is clearly primarily intended to be a replacement for Legion artifact weapons. In its current form, it is more accurately described as a consolidation of tier set bonuses, gold artifact traits and netherlight crucible relic traits. While these systems weren't bad, they were of comparatively minor significance (from a gameplay perspective, not necessarily in terms of DPS) next to most Legion legendaries and the artifact abilities themselves. Unfortunately, the live HoA/AA system has completely failed to replace Legion legendaries and artifact abilities, and that, I believe, is perhaps the primary reason so many players feel as though their classes lack so much of the gameplay depth they had in Legion.

The solution is to stop treating Azerite Armor primarily as a replacement for gold traits, netherlight crucible traits, and tier set bonuses. Instead, treat it primarily as a replacement for Legion legendaries. To accomplish this, the following changes need to be made:

1. Drastically reduce the number of outer ring traits to maybe 5-10 per spec initially, only keep existing outer ring traits that have as significant an impact on class gameplay as Legion legendaries did. Develop more impactful ones to fill the roster where needed.

2. Reduce the number of second ring traits similarly, and relegate all traits that seem more comparable in nature to gold traits, netherlight crucible traits, and tier set bonuses to the second ring.

3. Have Azerite Armor traits automatically swap with spec, much like talents.

4. Do NOT put a second outer ring on Azerite Armor. That creates more complexity in the system, creates more problems than it solves, and would bloat tables exponentially.

5. Adjust dungeon, pvp, and raid loot tables so that every single outer ring trait is available in every one of these settings (and therefore in the weekly M+ cache as well), but have Azerite armor be subject to the exact same loot ilvl system as every other piece of gear you'd normally get from pvp, M+, and raids.

With these changes, players would have incentive to collect (and could conceivably collect) all the Azerite Armor pieces from a current tier much like they did with Legion legendaries, but they could now do so in a targeted fashion since these items are available on specific loot tables. With each successive tier, Azerite gear would naturally be refarmed as part of the process of ilvl progression through new content, and one or two new outer ring traits would be introduced per spec, similar to how new Legendaries were released over the course of Legion.

In addition to these changes, there are two other things I believe should be implemented as soon as possible:

1. Remove the HoA level restriction (or lower it so much that it basically becomes a non-issue for any regularly played character) from Azerite Armor and convert AP into a currency used to a. purchase bonus rolls (and I'd strongly suggest making it the only way to purchase bonus rolls), b. increase HoA ilvl (with the same diminishing returns as live), c. purchase gems and reagents as well as special pets/toys/mounts/profession recipes, and d. purchase account bound AP tokens that can be sent to alts.

2. Remove all the small, static AP gains from dungeons and raid boss kills, and instead turn AP into an item on dungeon and raid boss loot tables that has a comparable drop rate to other dungeon or raid loot drop items but awards a very large amount of AP all at once. I can't communicate how important it is that AP not feel like a consolation prize similar to gold. In combination with the other suggested changes to AP, this would make getting a chunk of AP in a M+ loot chest or from a raid boss feel like an actual valuable and flexible reward. It would also make island expeditions and world quests with AP rewards feel much more worthwhile.
seems like a well constructed and thought out post, I hope this gets some attention from Lore and in turn the devs, even if only to give them some ideas (despite the fact that there have been hundreds of posts about this) to improve the system further!
10/07/2018 06:12 AMPosted by Mysiandro
I hope this gets some attention from Lore and in turn the devs


Lol ppl actually think they care.
Great post.

One additional way they can implement changes to help the BFA system not feel so empty and lacking compared to Legion would be adding a level 120 talent row.

The talent options could be a combination of gold artifact Traits from legion, as well as legion legendary abilities.

Of course we’d only be able to choose one new talent, but it would still help a lot in terms of progression.
10/07/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Riidatar
10/07/2018 06:12 AMPosted by Mysiandro
I hope this gets some attention from Lore and in turn the devs


Lol ppl actually think they care.


They do. They just have a lot of noise to sift through.
10/07/2018 07:04 AMPosted by Bigdiggles
Great post.

One additional way they can implement changes to help the BFA system not feel so empty and lacking compared to Legion would be adding a level 120 talent row.

The talent options could be a combination of gold artifact Traits from legion, as well as legion legendary abilities.

Of course we’d only be able to choose one new talent, but it would still help a lot in terms of progression.


Agreed. This would be a good functional replacement for artifact abilities.
10/07/2018 07:06 AMPosted by Laienne
10/07/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Riidatar
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Lol ppl actually think they care.


They do. They just have a lot of noise to sift through.


New flash here. They don't untill it starts to hit company financially. It has been proven yet again they don't care any kind of social outrage/blow out or if less players play the game.
Azerite Traits are roughly equivalent to glyphs. Remember glyphs? That's about how much impact they have. A little less, to be frank.
10/07/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Quard
Azerite Traits are roughly equivalent to glyphs. Remember glyphs? That's about how much impact they have. A little less, to be frank.


I mean I don't disagree, but the point here is that Blizz doesn't have to completely scrap the framework for Azerite Armor and start from scratch. They can make this a successful system by more closely emulating the spirit of the Legion legendaries and altering the purpose and uses for AP as I've described.
10/07/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Riidatar
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Lol ppl actually think they care.


They do. They just have to lose alot of subs for them to get their crap together.


FTFY
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They do. They just have to lose alot of subs for them to get their crap together.


FTFY


Nah, I honestly think they just get carried away with visions of grandeur on some of their ideas and can be a bit defensive and slow in admitting where things didn't succeed like they'd hoped. They're clearly at least trying to address community concerns. They made a lot of iterative improvements to Legion along the way. I'm optimistic they'll do the same here, but they definitely need good feedback on the best courses of action, and that can be hard to find because the signal to noise ratio is pretty high.
10/07/2018 09:03 PMPosted by Laienne
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FTFY


Nah, I honestly think they just get carried away with visions of grandeur on some of their ideas and can be a bit defensive and slow in admitting where things didn't succeed like they'd hoped. They're clearly at least trying to address community concerns. They made a lot of iterative improvements to Legion along the way. I'm optimistic they'll do the same here, but they definitely need good feedback on the best courses of action, and that can be hard to find because the signal to noise ratio is pretty high.
Lol you're giving Blizzard too much credit. I hope you can handle the disappointment.
They pruned and gutted our classes. The azerite system doesn't compensate for everything we've lost in Legion either. It's frustrating.
Im just trying to figure out how many times they want to try to re-invent the wheel.
I wanted to give some extra information that clarifies my thoughts on these suggestions a bit due to some of the feedback this post had gotten on reddit. The goal here is to propose changes that would solve two of BfA's major problems (incomplete feeling classes and Azerite Armor) without necessitating a fundamental system overhaul like Bellular's "traits directly on HoA" idea. I think a lot of people, including Blizzard, underestimate how strong the Azerite system would be if it were tweaked so that they were essentially Legion legendaries with varying secondary traits that were directly farmable in a targeted way through both of the major pve endgame loot sources (as well as more randomly through pvp loot drops).

I know that Blizzard wants AP to be a second form of endgame progression. I'm not so much ignoring that as I am stating implicitly that AP simply doesn't have enough depth in BfA to be ABLE to function as its own form of progression like Blizzard wants. It was already a fairly weak, unidimensional form of progression in Legion. BfA has gutted it of the little depth that it had, and attempting to design a way for it to be more than it is and function as an independent form of endgame progression would likely require a large scale reinvention of the whole AP progression system. Rather than do that, I think it's much more reasonable in the short term to transition AP into a system that, rather than being an independent form of progression, complements and is dependent on the fundamental form of endgame progression: gearing. Having it be a currency for bonus rolls, reagents, and profession gear recipes is a great way to do that without having AP turn into BfA's version of Justice/Valor points.
10/08/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Taunthis
Im just trying to figure out how many times they want to try to re-invent the wheel.
I'd like to know why in addition. They keep ruining the class every time. Like I said before, people would kill just to see the specs rolled back to a previous xpac because of the fact it was well designed.
10/08/2018 05:19 PMPosted by Shadøw
10/08/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Taunthis
Im just trying to figure out how many times they want to try to re-invent the wheel.
I'd like to know why in addition. They keep ruining the class every time. Like I said before, people would kill just to see the specs rolled back to a previous xpac because of the fact it was well designed.

I think, at least in this case, it was largely a matter of prioritization. Blizzard spent far too much in time and resources coming up with and attempting to balance and code a zillion bland Azerite traits. They seemed to want to have it feel like an rng based system without actually being an rng system by having tons and tons of potential trait combinations. It's a ton of work for what amounts to basically zero reward in practice, which is another reason I think they should drastically reduce the number of traits. If they don't, they're going to spend all of BfA tuning and retuning a million indistinguishable, boring traits for no reason at the expense of overall gameplay depth.

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