Not going to betray the Horde

Tides of Vengeance PTR General Discussion
10/12/2018 02:08 PMPosted by Jacksprat
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Sylvanas only cares about the Forsaken, that's been shown time and time again, and she's even stated that the rest of the Horde is nothing but meatshields to her and her forsaken.

The hordes agenda as a whole is to protect each other, and their lands. Her agenda is to protect her forsaken and their lands.

I will gladly stab whatever I can into the back of that banshee to take her out.


Is she sacrificing other Horde lands for Forsaken lands?


Personally, I'm hoping for Stormwind to be the new Forsaken capital. But that is not going to happen if they kill off Sylvanas.
10/12/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Sunwhisper
10/12/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Jacksprat
...

What's the difference between the Warchiefs' agenda and the Hordes' agenda?

Likewise, what's the difference between a king' agenda and his countries' agenda?


Sylvanas only cares about the Forsaken, that's been shown time and time again, and she's even stated that the rest of the Horde is nothing but meatshields to her and her forsaken.

The hordes agenda as a whole is to protect each other, and their lands. Her agenda is to protect her forsaken and their lands.

I will gladly stab whatever I can into the back of that banshee to take her out.


Except for that's not true at all.

https://youtu.be/7IFxwlcSo4w?t=1320

Sylvanas to Saurfang after he abandons the horde in the battle for lordearon:

"Maybe you don't care if your people die as long as it's honorable. But to me, this horde is worth saving".
I like all the horde players talking about not wanting to be traitors when they've been traitors to the horde since Mists.
10/12/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Jagdtiger
I like all the horde players talking about not wanting to be traitors when they've been traitors to the horde since Mists.

Some didn't want to do that then. People posting "Garrosh did nothing wrong" has been a thing since the Dagger in the Dark scenario, even the war crimes book exonerated him.
Some people like the brutal horde, the conquering horde, the victory or death horde.
People who are all about honor have only been on the ride since WC3 or WoW.
10/12/2018 04:32 PMPosted by Drako
10/12/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Sunwhisper
...

Sylvanas only cares about the Forsaken, that's been shown time and time again, and she's even stated that the rest of the Horde is nothing but meatshields to her and her forsaken.

The hordes agenda as a whole is to protect each other, and their lands. Her agenda is to protect her forsaken and their lands.

I will gladly stab whatever I can into the back of that banshee to take her out.


Except for that's not true at all.

https://youtu.be/7IFxwlcSo4w?t=1320

Sylvanas to Saurfang after he abandons the horde in the battle for lordearon:

"Maybe you don't care if your people die as long as it's honorable. But to me, this horde is worth saving".


Yea, no. I don't believe anything she says, as she's also been shown to be a liar.
10/12/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Sunwhisper
10/12/2018 04:32 PMPosted by Drako
...

Except for that's not true at all.

https://youtu.be/7IFxwlcSo4w?t=1320

Sylvanas to Saurfang after he abandons the horde in the battle for lordearon:

"Maybe you don't care if your people die as long as it's honorable. But to me, this horde is worth saving".


Yea, no. I don't believe anything she says, as she's also been shown to be a liar.

Yeah. Actions speak louder than words and Saurfangs actions have him abandoning the horde to protect his honor which seems to be the only thing he's concerned about.
What’s mind boggling about this is how easy they could alter scenario so that both sides are happy.

Well...less miserable.

For example:

You talk with the Dark Ranger before combat begins.

Dark Ranger: “Stay out of this.”

You: “My orders were to bring him back alive unharmed.”

OR

You: “Saurfang is right. The Dark Lady has gone too far.”

End Result:

Dark Ranger: /yell “I told you to stayed out of this, <player>!

(Begin combat)

Even though the above dialogue isn’t exactly great, it at least allows the player the illusion of choice to not betray Sylvanas’ Horde.
10/12/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Jagdtiger
I like all the horde players talking about not wanting to be traitors when they've been traitors to the horde since Mists.


I wasn't a forum-goer back in Mop so I can't attest to that, but most people I know hated the rebellion story back then too.

In fact, it's part of the reason people are so angry right now. It's a rehash of a plot line that wasn't even that popular the first time. It's garbage.
10/11/2018 06:28 AMPosted by Theldarin
Hey look, an undead player not getting what he wants for once. Cry me a river.


This isn't just an Undead problem, this is a Lack of Character Agency problem. Like, why should we care at all about the story when what we do has absolutely no bearing on it at all? That's bad for everyone.

WoW has never been great about player choices, but I'm pretty sure with their budget they could manage it.
10/12/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Fayx
10/12/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Jagdtiger
I like all the horde players talking about not wanting to be traitors when they've been traitors to the horde since Mists.

Some didn't want to do that then. People posting "Garrosh did nothing wrong" has been a thing since the Dagger in the Dark scenario, even the war crimes book exonerated him.
Some people like the brutal horde, the conquering horde, the victory or death horde.
People who are all about honor have only been on the ride since WC3 or WoW.


But Garrosh really did do nothing wrong.
10/11/2018 04:22 PMPosted by Tradora
Alliance faction fantasy: Help Mathias Shaw & Co defeat the Horde!

Horde faction fantasy: Help Mathias Shaw & Co defeat the Horde!

what a time to be alive.
Yeah pretty lazy plot tbh.
I'd rather get the !@#$ kicked out of me by Saurfang & Memeboi and then leave SoS than kill a Dark Ranger and the Forsaken Deathguards. Give me that option if I must do this quest line.
10/11/2018 07:02 PMPosted by Veilstrike
10/11/2018 10:00 AMPosted by Grandblade
Do you want Pathfinder or not?


Not like it matters since they'll pull an Argus and basically undermine flying the patch right after you get it.


You do realize there were technical limitations with the sky boxes that stopped flight in Argus right? Or were the instant teleport that made everything available within a minute and a half to far apart and that you're going to melt.. since after all you are a little snow flake
10/12/2018 11:01 PMPosted by Jagdtiger
10/12/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Fayx
...
Some didn't want to do that then. People posting "Garrosh did nothing wrong" has been a thing since the Dagger in the Dark scenario, even the war crimes book exonerated him.
Some people like the brutal horde, the conquering horde, the victory or death horde.
People who are all about honor have only been on the ride since WC3 or WoW.


But Garrosh really did do nothing wrong.


Uh

- Threatening to commit Genocide against all horde races that didn't fall in line
- Abusing the power of an old god
- Destroying one of the Pandarens most sacred area's
- Having a good chunk of responsibility for awakening the Sha
- Opening the Portal to Draenor to try to conquer Azeroth after he got spanked for being bad while he saved Draenor from shattering he still managed to essentially kill half the planets ecosystem
10/12/2018 07:20 PMPosted by Drako
Yeah. Actions speak louder than words and Saurfangs actions have him abandoning the horde to protect his honor which seems to be the only thing he's concerned about.
If it were all he was concerned about, he would feel no need to take the first steps towards revolution. He could just ignore the Horde safe and sound. Saurfang is clearly shown to care about the Horde, shown to want to do what's best for it, but sometimes fighting for the Horde might mean refusing to help it become something that it shouldn't be.

What's the point of the Horde surviving if the world doesn't, or if it just becomes the successor to the Lich King? Sylvanas frames what Saurfang thinks in the worst of ways, but she's still wrong.

There are things people have found to be worth dying for, ones that may be more important than simply surviving like an animal. Saurfang has his quote about never forsaking honor no matter how dire the battle for a reason. Because he's done so before, and it didn't lead anywhere good.

Sylvanas herself has always been openly rebellious and treasonous. She's made it clear that she harbored no loyalty to Vol'jin or the Horde at various times. She's in no position to judge anyone's loyalty. Brazen insubordination is her thing.

So Saurfang has decided he'd rather die than be an active baby-killer. Durotar itself is named after someone who made the same kind of choice before. Named after someone who betrayed and abandoned the Horde as it was, because the "survival" excuse simply wasn't enough to explain away every atrocity they had committed so far. Or to justify sinking so far.
10/11/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Kaath
Sorry, not going to happen. Please give an option that does not require my undead warlock to betray the horde.


You're already betraying the Horde by being a yesman to someone that doesn't actually care about the Horde or the Forsaken, or their founding values, and is only using them as a meatshield to ward off her own damnation.

Voss would be a better representative of the Forsaken at this point. At least she didn't become Arthas 2.0 and wants to help the undead instead of making more of them to serve in her campaign for world domination.

Sylvanas is evil and is bad for our faction's identity and continued existence. Teldrassil was not only grossly amoral, but an absolutely stupid tactical decision. She literally burnt an undefended island/port city and all of its resources and would-be-hostages to the ground, which ruined the Horde's best chance to negotiate from a place of power in an otherwise 50/50 war.
10/13/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
10/11/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Kaath
Sorry, not going to happen. Please give an option that does not require my undead warlock to betray the horde.


You're already betraying the Horde by being a yesman to someone that doesn't actually care about the Horde or its founding values and is only using it as a meatshield to ward off her own damnation.


Go to bed, Yag.
10/13/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Jacksprat
10/13/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Yagarr
...

You're already betraying the Horde by being a yesman to someone that doesn't actually care about the Horde or its founding values and is only using it as a meatshield to ward off her own damnation.


Go to bed, Yag.


Fight me, you cowards.
10/13/2018 09:15 PMPosted by Yagarr
10/13/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Jacksprat
...

Go to bed, Yag.


Fight me, you cowards.


Those beefcake arms need their rest. Come back tomorrow, freshly inflated.
The other scenario

Sylvanas is defeated and imprisoned without any further resistance and everything seems hunky dory until all hell breaks loose the world is going down in flames.

"Theres noone who can stop this...how could I have been so blind" Jaina says

Anduin replies "Yes there is..."

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum