So, how many BDK's are going to reroll now?

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10/18/2018 10:05 AMPosted by Feldrick
Not gonna reroll, but i might experiment with Rune Tap and Stoneskin Gargoyle.


I’ve been using rune tap over Will and really like it. It makes blood play like a bit more “traditional” mitigation tank, and helps my play style. I’m not pushing anything higher than a 6, so, take it for what it’s worth...potentially nothing?
10/17/2018 11:43 PMPosted by Edisbelee
I hope they nerf them to the ground.

Almost every single +10 group is asking for a Blood DK..

It's sad...


Such a sad attitude. There will always be a favorite tank spec for m+, it's impossible to have everything equal.

You're happy they are nerfed to be unfun/effective like many other tanks? What a shame. Rather than wanting other tanks to be buffed we just want to drag the only few decent specs back down to hell.
10/18/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Adolmaea
The math works out to about a 3% more damage taken increase from what I've seen in Acherus. If you're rerolling over that, well...

10/18/2018 08:47 AMPosted by Argorwal
Pretty bizarre nerfs since it doesn't really change what makes them so OP in mythic+.

Really, warriors and druids need a buff and DKs and monks need a nerf.

Not 1 or the other.


It depends on what you're buffing for protection warriors. They require more work than other tanks, and a single mistake is pretty costly, but when you can pull it off they're as strong as other tanks. The goal for prot should be to adjust rage costs and adjust Ignore Pain so that the skill floor is a little lower. A good protection warrior needs about as much healing as a paladin right now; the main issue is you're either a good warrior or a dead one.


Right, the recent warrior hotfix gave them about 4% health and 1.5% DR, but it's not like people rerolled to Warriors in droves either. Nerfing DK armor makes them more spiky and even less equipped to handle chunky physical damage like Fetid's Thrashes, but in the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal.

A lot of Warrior's perceived weaknesses is community perception; people are convinced sustain tanks are strong, but a warrior is more like a monk than a DK. Blizzard should try to cater to that niche, making simple changes like restoring Legion's Spell Reflect for its full duration and not just one spell, taking down the cost of Shield Block, or even baking Ignore Pain into Revenge will feed into damage smoothing.
10/18/2018 09:19 AMPosted by Argorwal
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I have no idea what MDI guys you're talking about, but let's be real here:

Nerfing BDK doesn't change anything ROFL.

The problem comes from the MOST basic level of class design, when you have content that one tank spec is conceptually perfectly suited for, nerfing it solves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It'll still be the best simply because of how it operates. It comes down to the very principals of how each tank works, not because Blood had "15% too much armor"... That's moronic. That's why buffing the other tank specs is the only option, not nerfing BDK until... What? You're gonna nerf them so far they can't take 2 hits in succession without dying? Thats the level of nerf you'd have to bring to a blood DK to make them not premeire m+ tanks. And that's not BDK's fault. It's Blizz' fault for having no idea of what they're doing with every other tank spec when you hit us with these GENIUS blanket, all around nerfs on every aspect of tanking.

Tank don't play to have fun anyways, right? Who cares if no matter what we do our gameplay feels like trash, right?

Blizz: "Meh, it's just the tanks, who cares if they're having fun and feeling like they can make a substantial impact in content? NOT US LOL! MORE NERFS BOYS!"

Who cares if we get nerfed to the point of feeling like complete and utter cardboard crap when ever we make a pull, no matter what tank we play, right?

This is on Blizz and their complete lack of foresight into how their own game is going to develop, through content they've designed ahead of time!

Because gee whiz, who would have thought nerfing all areas of tanking on every tank in prepatch would have effected all the tanks differently for different content?

Oh that's right, this guy did. And I called it during Legion Prepatch.

Cuz Bliz thinks constantly fighting for aggro makes tanking fun. News flash: it doesn't. What makes tanking fun is figuring out the right gear, talents and playstyle to make your tank as independent as possible and to cut your healer some slack (which trust me, they f-ing appreciate). THATS what healers loved about a good tank versus a bad tank. But Blizz refuses to understand that and in typical BFA fashion, has disregarded feedback and went the exact opposite direction. THATS ALWAYS BEEN THE POINT OF PRIDE FOR TANKS, AND IT ALWAYS WILL BE. Otherwise, on the most basic level, why bother with stuff like armor?!


It's a bit of a predicament because DKs and their self healing style of tanking was always balanced around raid style damage and multiple healer.

They were always broken in 5 mans due to their self healing toolkit design, but prior to Legion there wasn't any serious 5 man content so nobody cares.

Now we have mythic+, and a giant spotlight is shown on the DK toolkit and how well it works in 5 mans.

So you really have 3 options.

1) leave BDKs alone and let them dominate

2) Gut their self healing and 5 man utility

3) Beat around the bush with nerfs and tweaks.

Blizzard is going with #3 right now because #1 isn't good for health of the game, but #2 (while most effective) would destroy what people have loved about the DK style for the past 10 years.


There are no % buffs or nerfs that can make anything better than a Blood DK for m+, because the most basic concept a BDK operates on is the most complete tank independence of a healer the game has ever known.

This is a problem further compounded by the fact recently with BFA all of the other tanks have gotten self-sustain nerfs.

Now, how do you change the core mechanic of a class to balance for m+ and raid? You don't, and you also can't. Not without making BDK useless in raid.

Thats not ideal. And a well played, well geared tank SHOULD be able to do content they have the appropriate ilvl to do.

I have ideas. Ideas I feel, if implemented, would not only allow BDK to keep that unique facet of themselves as the self-sustain tank, but allow unique strengths and inherent weaknesses to literally all other tank specs, in m+ and raid simultaneously.

Still waiting for someone to ask me, as I have been since BFA prepatch, but my posts have fallen by the wayside by "NERF BLOOD DKS THEY SOLO +8947 FORTIFIED + TYANNICAL UNDERROTS" instead of intelligent suggestions.
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I'm not good at reading and understanding what was posted for Druids,I'm hoping that it means buffs and improvements to play.


There were buffs to other tanks, at least Guardian, Warrior (via trait), Paladin (consecrate). The trait buff is a little wonky because of obvious RNG, but it’s a buff.

Monk changes appeared to be PvP only.

Sorry, to be more specific for druid: their damaging abilities were increased from 4% to 16%


The consecrate buff is worthless. It does nothing to address their self sustain compared to blood dk and utility. Prot paladin has bop. Great that's useful for the first boss of the easiest dungeon atal. I heard all paladins bring that also and blood dk is better anyway for controlling mobs.

There is nothing really unique about other tanks. Even if they nerfed blood sustain they would still be better in mythic plus. They are dominating mythic plus for last 3 expansions and also raids now as well.

For as long as death grip, grasp and high self sustain remain they will be top tank regardless. They need to make utility changes to prot paladin, monk, warrior and guardian druid.
10/17/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Farajah
The only way I am rerolling is if Zandalari can be Paladins.
If Zandalari can be paladins then everyone's going to reroll regardless, right?
10/18/2018 10:05 AMPosted by Beraaht
10/18/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Dalles
I saw that Consecration gets a slight buff,did I miss something else?


Warrior/Druid changes are coming to PTR, Blizzard has commented as much.

Don't expect Paladins to get anything Prot wise, we're pretty much the "middle ground" they want everyone to be at.

10/18/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Dubknight
Don't pretend like you did.


I won't, I don't read hyperbole filled drivel. I stop when the glaring hyperbole starts and just roll my eyes.


I'm happy with the cons buff,I didn't expect anything,it can be nice to be the middle of the road.I'm just hoping the Guardian changes are good.
10/18/2018 10:05 AMPosted by Beraaht
10/18/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Dalles
I saw that Consecration gets a slight buff,did I miss something else?


Warrior/Druid changes are coming to PTR, Blizzard has commented as much.

Don't expect Paladins to get anything Prot wise, we're pretty much the "middle ground" they want everyone to be at.

10/18/2018 10:04 AMPosted by Dubknight
Don't pretend like you did.


I won't, I don't read hyperbole filled drivel. I stop when the glaring hyperbole starts and just roll my eyes.


Way to comment on stuff you didn't read so your opinion means absolutely nothing and holds no value whatsoever. I can tell you're a follower of The Light, cuz that's very bright.

You should join a book club.
Another idea I kept pushing during beta was to give Gorefiend's Grasp to ALL DK specs. I don't understand why keystone utilities for classes like Monk and DH are spec-independent, but somehow BDKs have the monopoly on the mass-grip. DPS DK utility is low, and other tanks would like access to a mass grip. Why not solve both problems at once?
As a healer, I'm ok with the nerfs. What's the point of healing one of two tanks in mythic plus?

Honestly, tanks should not be pulling more hos than me, if this makes content harder, so be it. I'd like to see warriors and druids in groups of mythic 7 and up. Healing the blood dk, who almost doesnt need me, and the DHS why bother?

Again, from a healer point of view, I shouldn't feel like baggage for the tanks to just carry along for their dps. I say this, because my last tank said this specifically.

To all my warrior and druid friends I hope you become viable.
With the changes to Disc, I’ll probably be rerolling TO a Blood DK.
We are now multiple patches in on ptr. Blizzard just spit in everyone's face with no adjustments to tank utility for other tanks (the main reason why blood dk are top) or other tanks sustain. You guys still think other tanks will see utility changes? They buffed consecrate by a fraction of a percent. Guys it's fixed now we did it. I cant wait for the blood dk invitational.
10/17/2018 11:33 PMPosted by Salhezar
I'm just complaining, but losing the 15% armor bonus and the WotN nerf sucks.

Who's gonna reroll? What are you rerolling to?
Dunno what the big stink is you don't have to put square wheels on the blood dk to fix what's wrong. The main problem is the bonestorm is doing crazy damage and healing like good ole frenzied regen of the old bear in bc but they get to use it 5 times more often. So bam you make bonestorm a 5 min cd on blood dk-- problem solved.
I think the real issue here is that people have been complaining about it not feeling like we leveled from 110 to 120, feels more like we went down to 100, so blizzard decided to nerf classes rather than give them maybe a more complex role? They should be trying to make it about skill instead of just a flat nerf. I mean I would understand if blizzard said "Ok BDKs are out performing other tanks (partially because other tanks are garbage right now and probably do need a buff) how about instead of flat making BDKs worse we change mechanics for them and make it more than just *marowrend* *death and decay* *blood plague* *deathstrike* rinse repeat?"
And a side note, no way I'm rerolling with leveling as god awful as it is right now, I think I'm just unsubbing.
I usually play Unholy, but am in Blood quite often.

I do not tank anything of importance, but if I did, I would not re-roll, because I'm not dumb.
Should have known better to try tanking this expansion, blood was performing well and with Brew also. Blizz logic is to nerf the two tank specs doing decent and put them in the bottom with Prot and Bear tanks. 40+min dps queues due to tank shortage so Blizz says "Hmm let us fix this by nerfing tanking! and screwing around with threat!"

My love for WoW has been dying for while now with the direction the game has been heading.
I usually play Unholy, but am in Blood quite often.

I do not tank anything of importance, but if I did, I would not re-roll, because I'm not dumb.


What constructive insightful information that was lad.
10/18/2018 05:43 AMPosted by Spazfists
Blood DK has been the best dungeon tank, by far, for about 5 years now. To the point where half the tanks are straight up refused entry to high keys. Their utility is the best, hands down, with single grip + gorefiends, and they are basically self sufficient without a healer.

That's called OP. They need a wack with the bat and it's been way too long coming. There's nothing you can give a prot warrior or a guardian druid that comes close to gorefiends or non-reliance on a healer. Tanks are supposed to get hit, hard, and get healed, by a healer.

Nobody likes being nerfed, and it's fun to be OP, but you don't get to act surprised. :P


You're so right. Tanks should get absolutely demolished while healers can't keep them up. That's the way to have fun these days.
10/18/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Revaniite
As a healer, I'm ok with the nerfs. What's the point of healing one of two tanks in mythic plus?

Honestly, tanks should not be pulling more hos than me, if this makes content harder, so be it. I'd like to see warriors and druids in groups of mythic 7 and up. Healing the blood dk, who almost doesnt need me, and the DHS why bother?

Again, from a healer point of view, I shouldn't feel like baggage for the tanks to just carry along for their dps. I say this, because my last tank said this specifically.

To all my warrior and druid friends I hope you become viable.


Well then that last tank was dumb and uninformed. Don't listen to jerks, what do you want me to tell you?

Also, a tank outhealing you on a single fight is fine, because that's due to either a gimmick in a fight, the fight not lasting long at all, you aren't a good healer or you're doing trivial content.

Even in a relevant for your item level 5 man, you have (not counting the tank) 4 targets to heal. Tanks shouldn't be outhealing because tanks only have one target they can heal: themselves. Unless it's one of the cases listed above, it doesn't happen. Feel free to look at your overall healing done for the raid fight or the entire m+, they aren't out healing you.

There are other factors that come into play you know, like if a blood DK is beating you on healing in raid, you're probably overstacked on healers in that raid group.

Don't expect nerfs to my role to make you "feel better" about yours. That's selfish and dumb, you shouldn't be the only one that gets to perform well if you play well.

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