Does anyone actually like Anduin?

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10/22/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Darethy
Now that Tyrandes split and taken the Worgen with him, she's basically played into what Windrunner wanted them to do to begin with. Ironforge and Stormwind are way more valuable then what's left of the Alliance garrison in Ashenvale. From an emotional standpoint I can't expect her to act any other way, from a tactical standpoint she's opened the Alliance's renewed offensive to the possibility of getting hacked off at the knees.
Night elves are written as incompetent morons with no long-term thinking or patience despite being at least 1000 times older than any other race on the planet besides draenei? Wow. Imagine my shock.
I don't dislike him, but he's not and never has been on my list of favorite characters. He's just kind of there. I appreciate that he's a genuinely good person because this setting seems to breed edgelords, but he is too perfect and also shouldn't be in charge of the Alliance. The Zuldazar raid stuff is reeeally stupid as well.
10/22/2018 09:24 AMPosted by Grandblade
10/22/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Darethy
...

I was all in Tyrande's camp, then violently flipped over to Anduins camp when I realized his gameplan was to do Darnassus but ethically and better. The full force of the Alliance bearing down on Silvermoon could win the war in itself by holding the city hostage, at worst it ensures that the Horde would never threaten the Alliance heartland again.

Now that Tyrandes split and taken the Worgen with him, she's basically played into what Windrunner wanted them to do to begin with. Ironforge and Stormwind are way more valuable then what's left of the Alliance garrison in Ashenvale. From an emotional standpoint I can't expect her to act any other way, from a tactical standpoint she's opened the Alliance's renewed offensive to the possibility of getting hacked off at the knees.
That's fair. Honestly, attacking an enemy capital and NOT burning it down would be a solid way to combat this, but I'm unsure how willing Sylvanas would be to crack under pressure. Sylvanas was going to attempt to play on Anduin's moral compass, and I think her's is a bit wonky... but yeah, I don't fully agree with Tyrande's decision, but I can certainly understand where she's coming from.


It’s more about splitting the Horde internally really, remember Anduin has already seen/potentially talked with Saurfang and witnessed the internal Horde divisions.
10/22/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Darethy
Ironforge and Stormwind are way more valuable then what's left of the Alliance garrison in Ashenvale.

Ashenvale can be used as a staging ground to deploy against Orgrimmar, the Horde capital. Ashenvale is also a corridor that the Horde can use to deploy against Azuremyst Isle, where another Alliance population lives.

Ashenvale is not irrelevant and both sides have enough troops to fight on multiple fronts. Abandoning the front in Ashenvale is strategically unsound.
10/22/2018 09:24 AMPosted by Grandblade
That's fair. Honestly, attacking an enemy capital and NOT burning it down would be a solid way to combat this, but I'm unsure how willing Sylvanas would be to crack under pressure. Sylvanas was going to attempt to play on Anduin's moral compass, and I think her's is a bit wonky... but yeah, I don't fully agree with Tyrande's decision, but I can certainly understand where she's coming from.


If Anduin shows the Alliance he's being more moral then the Horde, that's a tactical advantage unique to him. I endorse Windrunners tactics minus the rampant targeting of civilians, but the key thing to know about playing dirty is that you're using your own morale as a currency. You have to rely on the demoralization you inflict to outpace your own armies frustration over not seeing impressive displays of power in conventional warfare and their own struggles with what is, or is not, honorable.

This is why I think Shaws slated to backfire. If he goes too far? makes the Horde and Alliance on an even moral playing field? Well you basically get what happens in Southeast Asia where you have an enemy both willing(and better at.) fighting dirty then you WHILE ALSO wanting to strangle you to death.

Imo, he's already !@#$ed up. Saurfang likely knows he's being used as a pawn and he'll deliberately avoid retreading MoP just to %^-* over Shaws gameplan.

10/22/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Éamon
10/22/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Darethy
Ironforge and Stormwind are way more valuable then what's left of the Alliance garrison in Ashenvale.

Ashenvale can be used as a staging ground to deploy against Orgrimmar, the Horde capital. Ashenvale is also a corridor that the Horde can use to deploy against Azuremyst Isle, where another Alliance population lives.

Ashenvale is not irrelevant and both sides have enough troops to fight on multiple fronts. Abandoning the front in Ashenvale is strategically unsound.


Ashenvale also just got demolished and basically only has Kal'dorei gurrelia's maintaining it's infrastructure. There's nothing to stage off of to hit Org, they'll be occupied just trying to rebuild while the might of the Horde is raining down on them every step of the way. And with a WMD like blight being used everywhere? It's just not a good idea.
I'm curious to see where his character will end up at the end of BfA. I liked Anduin a lot in MoP, like many of you, and he's done nothing to me to change that, although I agree that he really feels like Golden's personal writer's pet, which is always annoying (although I really love Thrall, who was clearly Metzen's pet, so even that annoyance is relative). I agree with Galenorn, though, that it'll be really distasteful if they write the Anduin vs. Tyrande/Genn conflict as a way to showcase how morally good and perfect Anduin is by setting up Tyrande as some kind of intrafaction bad guy for daring to want vengeance for her people. If that happens, then all of the anger of night elf fans for having their race crapped on and made the punching bag of WoW will be entirely validated.

So my general take on it is that Anduin himself is fine, but setting up the Alliance as the Stormwind Empire subject to the High King of Human Potential is a really bad move.
10/22/2018 09:30 AMPosted by Éamon
10/22/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Darethy
Ironforge and Stormwind are way more valuable then what's left of the Alliance garrison in Ashenvale.

Ashenvale can be used as a staging ground to deploy against Orgrimmar, the Horde capital. Ashenvale is also a corridor that the Horde can use to deploy against Azuremyst Isle, where another Alliance population lives.

Ashenvale is not irrelevant and both sides have enough troops to fight on multiple fronts. Abandoning the front in Ashenvale is strategically unsound.


Except Ashenvale lacks a deep water port and is significantly harder to resupply.
10/22/2018 09:28 AMPosted by Saiphas
It’s more about splitting the Horde internally really, remember Anduin has already seen/potentially talked with Saurfang and witnessed the internal Horde divisions.
If Anduin knowingly released Saurfang to drive a divide into the Horde, it would earn him a lot of points for calculation. Would be devastating to the Horde still, so... we're at an impasse.
10/22/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Darethy
I was all in Tyrande's camp, then violently flipped over to Anduins camp when I realized his gameplan was to do Darnassus but ethically and better. The full force of the Alliance bearing down on Silvermoon could win the war in itself by holding the city hostage, at worst it ensures that the Horde would never threaten the Alliance heartland again.
Until a Void Elf farts too close to the Sunwell, and then it's Teldrassil all over again.
10/22/2018 09:31 AMPosted by Saiphas
Except Ashenvale lacks a deep water port and is significantly harder to resupply.

Since when has logistics or manpower affected any military campaign in Warcraft?

Remember those catapults that hurled flaming payloads at Darnassus from across the English Channel?
Tyrande splitting off along with the Worgen plays into what Sylvannas initially intended to do from the start and sadly my opinion of her took a hit when she presumably stormed off like an angry child not getting what she wanted. I can understand why she did it, out of anger and the like, but it felt like she didn't have faith that her lands would be taken back with time. Her problem was that she wanted them back and she wanted them back now and the whole Warfront storyline was just a big victory for team Forsaken. Tyrande just singlehandedly showed the chink in the Alliance's armor despite being a 10 thousand year old elf, all she displays is incompetence. So yeah, Anduin may have said some questionable things, but if there was any character I currently hate more than Sylvannas, that would be Tyrande. I like Anduin way more than I like Tyrande. Waaaaay more.
if his name was AL DU IN, i would respect it.
10/22/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Éamon
10/22/2018 09:31 AMPosted by Saiphas
Except Ashenvale lacks a deep water port and is significantly harder to resupply.

Since when has logistics or manpower affected any military campaign in Warcraft?

Remember those catapults that hurled flaming payloads at Darnassus from across the English Channel?


Because the game says it does? Wyrmbane iirc says that is exactly why they take the position they do in Vol’dun
10/22/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Skalla
I was a little skeptical when he said that too but I just figured that it was Blizzard shoehorning in a way to cause entropy between the Alliance and Tyrande as a way to help fuel the plot for Darkshore Warfront and any potential future inner conflict Alliance side. It seemed too out of place of a thing to say especially since he tries so damn hard to please everyone.

I mean, yeah, I get that it was probably done to drive gameplay. But as it stands, I still just agree with Tyrande that every second longer that Kaldorei lands are occupied by the Horde is a second too long. And I agree with Maiev that it's pretty douchey of him and the Humans to sit there with their thumbs up their !@# when the Night Elves need something. After Night Elves have fought and died pursuing Human interests for, what, a decade or two, now?
10/22/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Saiphas
10/22/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Éamon
...
Since when has logistics or manpower affected any military campaign in Warcraft?

Remember those catapults that hurled flaming payloads at Darnassus from across the English Channel?


Because the game says it does? Wyrmbane iirc says that is exactly why they take the position they do in Vol’dun


Essentially. They're trying to show strategy in BfA, half the reason I love Battle for Undercity is all the jabbering about funneling enemies and prioritizing targets like the siege towers to leverage every advantage that makes UC a death trap to an invading army.
As a Horde player I was a defender of him during Cata to MoP. He was 15 year kid that didn't know any better. But now a days I fantasies slamming him around like a rag doll like what Hulk did to Loki.
10/22/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Saiphas
Because the game says it does? Wyrmbane iirc says that is exactly why they take the position they do in Vol’dun

I'll never take the faction war seriously when logistics and strategy occupy a quantum probability wavefunction. They both matter and don't matter until the plot focuses on them. Then the wavefunction collapses into a certain yes or no depending on what's easier (lazier) to write.
10/22/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Skalla
I was a little skeptical when he said that too but I just figured that it was Blizzard shoehorning in a way to cause entropy between the Alliance and Tyrande as a way to help fuel the plot for Darkshore Warfront and any potential future inner conflict Alliance side. It seemed too out of place of a thing to say especially since he tries so damn hard to please everyone.

I mean, yeah, I get that it was probably done to drive gameplay. But as it stands, I still just agree with Tyrande that every second longer that Kaldorei lands are occupied by the Horde is a second to long. And I agree with Maiev that it's pretty douchey of him and the Humans to sit there with their thumbs up their !@# when the Night Elves need something. After Night Elves have fought and died pursuing Human interests for, what, a decade or two, now?


But they arnt, the Alliance is in the process of gearing up to attack Dazar’alor and destroy the Golden Fleet, a necessary condition to be able to even contemplate moving a large number forces near Darkshore. the in game cutscene is not finished yet, but Velen is supposed to help Anduin lay out his case. That is where you (the Alliance PC comes in) as Anduin/the Alliance representative, being an army unto yourself.
Getting pinned between even a half functional Horde navy and the actual mass of the Hordes mainland army on Darkshore with 2/5ths of the alliance military about to get crippled if you lose would be really bad.

REALLY BAD.

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