WW PvP damage

Monk
Ok i'll admit im not the best WW. MW main here, so feel free to rip my post apart "Git gud" amirite.

In BGs it feels like the damage is way less then everyone else. Ill go an entire game using CDs properly, decent rotation ect. But when the final scoreboard appears i'm towards the bottom. It feels like to do good damage you have to basically have a perfect rotation and CD useage when other classes can hit 2-3 buttons and do a whole rotations worth of damage. Yes ToD is good but it's on a 2 min CD. Which means the only targets I can have a chance to kill will be every 2 mins. Also in PvP scenarios it only hits for 50-70k. I've seen Affy locks life draining our ToD damage every tick. Idk. Legion WW felt alot better.
Today I actually got lucky with an emissary and got a 370 open palms strike trait so now I have two 370 open palms traits and it feels like it does pretty good damage in pvp.

I only did one bg today after getting it and I topped damage barely and I was probably 10 ilvls higher than everybody else in the bg note. Probably way better than everyone else in the bg too.

Other than that I’ve noticed what you are describing. In every other expansion I’ve never found it hard being top damage in bgs but if you aren’t running the best traits atm as a ww it feels like it is impossible to be even the slight bit viable. Touch of death is not good enough in a large player setting. I normally try to run 1 touch of death trait in arena for the reduced cooldown and it serves its purpose but it doesn’t do any damage in bgs so you pay from using traits with more consistent pressure. After getting this second fof trait I’ll prbably never use the touch of death one again.
You do realize OPS is hot garbage in PVP since it is 40 percent effective right?
10/29/2018 02:03 PMPosted by Ultrios
You do realize OPS is hot garbage in PVP since it is 40 percent effective right?
It’s still probably the best one there is. The tigerpalm one is probably like the next best one. But extra damage on tp doesn’t exactly net you kills
I top damage almost every bg... use rushing jade wind
swift roundhouse with serenity still preforms great in pvp, particularly bgs. I just run 3x sr for pvp and have had good success.
Swift roundhouse damage tickles used to use it against mages but open palm strike is way better think about it. Even if it does 500 damage extra per tick which it does more. It’s alot more then the crappy swift roundhouse doing 600 x2 extra damage when it used to do over double.

Swift roundhouse is terrible and needs buffed
Just to be clear, OPS is 40% LESS effective than normal in pvp, not 40% effective, it's a pretty significant difference. For example, the tooltip of one of my OPS traits says ~1600 damage added per hit. That's 8k total for the trait.

8k in pve means 5k in pvp. 5k damage added to fists of fury still is pretty darn good for one trait. That means 15k for 3/3 traits, when my FoF does 27k damage base over its duration. That means pre-combo strikes it does 40k damage. (If it was 40% effective it would be 3.2k added per trait instead of 5k)

Add in combo strikes and maybe a storm earth and fire, and thats upwards of 65k damage which was done in less time than the duration of a leg sweep. That's pretty darn good if you ask me.

Imo, monk burst is pretty darn good right now, but sustained is pretty crap. But monk seems like it should be a burst spec to me, at least in pvp. With the theme of burst mobility and access to vivify, it seems to me that a burst damage orientation would fit the best with the strengths of the spec.
I was pretty certain I'd read they buffed OPS by 60 percent, but that it didn't work in PVP.

Would that not equate to 40 percent of the value?
10/30/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Ultrios
I was pretty certain I'd read they buffed OPS by 60 percent, but that it didn't work in PVP.

Would that not equate to 40 percent of the value?


This is why we have to be careful with the wording of how this works, because the % relative difference is dependent on which value we're considering our base.

Say since its around 1600 damage for me right now, if we reverse the buffs to it that would mean the damage would have to be 1000.

So 1000 x 1.6 = 1600. But this is with the old number as our reference point. Current pve damage is indeed 60% higher than reference point of the pre-buff number (which is the same as the pvp number.)

But if our reference point is how much damage it currently is, and then the relative LOSS from the current standpoint, it's going to be a different outcome. Because the damage added was 600, and 600 is 60% of 1000, but that % is different if you consider it as 600 being how much of 1600 as the base total.

If our reference point is how much the value is on the tooltip, and we want to know how much less damage it does in pvp, then we would have to see what the added flat number of 600 is relative to 1600, and in that case: 600 / 1600 = 0.375, or 37.5% less, which I rounded to 40%.

So the pvp number is 37.5% less damage than the pve number, but the pve number is 60% higher than the pvp number. Because the relativity of the % is determined by which number we're referring to as our base of understanding.

Does that make sense? I didn't mean to come in here and overcomplicate things, lol, but I do think this distinction is important. Man I wish I was actually like a math major or something and could better explain this.

The point is, effectively we see 1600 per hit in pve, and the pvp number is 37.5% less than the pve number, i.e. a 37.5% effective nerf. Since the change happened in the reverse order, that's where all this confusion comes from.
Ops feels like it melts faces in pvp not going to lie.
10/30/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Omnipotentjc
Ops feels like it melts faces in pvp not going to lie.


That's because it does ;)

I can get a FoF, a RSK, and a Whirling Dragon Punch all in sequence over the duration of a leg sweep, and only the last tick or two of Whirling Dragon Punch comes after the stun ends.

When my FoF is doing a combined 60k damage, then rising sun kick and whirling dragon punch both come in at 15k each, with RJW active and auto attacks accounted for, we're talking well over 90% of my max hp (I have crap gear on my monk lul) in under 5 seconds.

That's a pretty good burst window, in my book. And with storm earth and fire having two charges you can do it twice in the span of a minute and thirty seconds, three times in three minutes, etc. All you need to set it up is a storm earth and fire, and 5 chi.

And of course some cc to set up the kill, but your teammates can help with that if leg sweep isnt up.
Most of you guys just need to run Rushing jade wind if you want to do better damage in bgs.. IOC/av are a lost cause though.. the 10/15man bgs you can top damage pretty easy though.
10/30/2018 01:16 PMPosted by Silverback
Most of you guys just need to run Rushing jade wind if you want to do better damage in bgs.. IOC/av are a lost cause though.. the 10/15man bgs you can top damage pretty easy though.


I’m never going to run that crappy talent stop. When they change it I will try it. I didn’t like it in MoP and I don’t like it now and I probably won’t like the new version either. I want impactful damage. I don’t want to see how much damage I can do to pets. TYVM. Since I’ve been running the fof traits I’ve been topping damage every bg.
Whatever floats your boat man, just giving advice for people that want to top damage in bgs.. RJW does a lot of aoe damage, there is no denying that.
10/30/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Silverback
Whatever floats your boat man, just giving advice for people that want to top damage in bgs.. RJW does a lot of aoe damage, there is no denying that.


good thing that entire tier is preference

i personally like rjw the most

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