Your character, Horde, and Saurfang (Spoiler)

Wyrmrest Accord
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Saurfang is an orc of honor. Sylvanas is an abomination that has no honor. She massacres innocents and raises them into undeath. She's gotta go.

(See opposite opinion when on my Forsaken)
Altherei is still technically Horde by racial association, but she's been factional neutral for a while now. She actively stands against the war effort, and while she won't initiate or support open calls for revolution, she's focused her efforts on bringing relief and aid to the displaced and wounded on both sides of the faction lines through the Outreach. I'm not sure yet what courses of action could lead her to abandon the Horde entirely and defect, but I suspect it'd be something that I'd know when it happened.
Dakama and Skorest are both remaining loyal to the Horde for their own reasons.

Dakama is mostly blinded to horrible nature of what's going on because of his prejudice and ignorance. He sees this as finally getting vengeance against the humans and elves for all of their transgressions against trollkind. The burning of Teldrassil was a moment of rapture and celebration for him. However, he, like most trolls, absolutely hates the undead, and he looks forward for what he believes is an inevitable uprising against the Banshee Queen.

Skorest is loyal to the Horde because of personal honor and conviction, believing that too many have sacrificed for the red banner for him to abandon it because of his personal grief. He'll join Saurfang the moment the rebellion begins, though.
So much heresy...so little time...
11/02/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Grazzug
Saurfang is an orc of honor.


Yeah, stabbing a opponent in the back before they know you are there is sooooo honorable.

This is how an Orc repays the debt of being allowed to collect the body of his son.
The Stormhowl made the choice between honor and loyalty long before Saurfang said it. We haven't been Horde since February. Sylvanas embodies everything that goes against our clan's culture and it was an internal struggle from the time Legion started until we decided to secede from the Horde.

We did it through a few diplomatic events in which we could have potentially been labeled as enemies of the Horde and without home. Fortunately we managed to negotiate seceding from the Horde and taking Grizzly Hills with us, to free up resources for the war against the Legion, so long as we gave the updates on Northrend and didn't get in their way.

We regret having to abandon the Horde to keep our culture, principles, etc, intact, but felt we made the right choice after some of is witnessed Teldrassil, Loraderon and/or the aftermath of both. We still exist in as much of a neutral capacity as we can but tend to help the soldiers of the Horde as we can, usually providing healing or training. We will savor the day where we can swear a Blood Oath to a new Warchief, one with honor and a respect for the spirits, and re-enter the Horde proper again.

And before anyone calls us traitors or turncoats or anything of the sort, I'd like to remind you that everyone in the current Horde either turned a blind eye to Garrosh's doings until after he was dealt with or outright betrayed Garrosh. The next wave of rebellion happening to Sylvanas is no different. We were just.....Ahead of the Curve: Sylvanas.
The Horde is no longer living up to its potential. Honor, glory, pide... I find none of that with you lot anymore. Garrosh was the hero we needed, but he's no longer the one we deserve.
Bring on Scourge 2.0 so this Argent Crusader can wade through their ranks like the good ol' days.
It's a curious question for me, because I really want something to happen that will cause my zealous little nationalist here to rethink her position.

Because of Sylvanas' initial actions in creating a league of free-willed Lordaeronian undead... Sarestha, a Lordaeron nationalist in life and death, has a messiah complex with Sylvanas as its centre.

She has good qualities. She's kind to friends, and she'd rather convince people of Sylvanas' benevolence than lead them into oppression. But her loyalty is too strong to be broken, unless Sylvanas blatantly breaks one of her key tenets. If Lordaeron, or Free-Willed-Undeath, are blatantly threatened, Sarestha will support Saurfang. If not, she will continue to trust blindly in Sylvanas' leadership.

Without exception though, my other Horde toons either don't like Sylvanas, or are simply trying to keep their head down and not get involved in the war or politics in any way.
Sef won't side with Saurfang, though if the choice to side with neither in that quest is there, that's what she'll do. Other characters of mine will have different paths.

Sef would flow with the movements of her people, so she'll be waiting to see what Theron says/does, and only so that she doesn't lose (access to) more of her people e.g. Belf friends and family.
11/02/2018 02:30 PMPosted by Fenryka
What I'm wondering here is, will there come a point for any of your characters where the Horde will do something so evil that out of sheer conscience, you will choose to abandon the Horde just so you won't be party to such evils?


It is far easier to destroy a fortress from the inside, rather than dash yourself against the walls from without.

Do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
Honor means nothing to the dead. To Saria the difference between the attack on Qual'Thalas and Teldrassil is that the night elves had it coming. As long as the Alliance is the target of Sylvanas she'll remain loyal.

In all seriousness I don't have a high opinion of Saurfang, Hordes "Honor" is a load of bull&@%*, and I have ZERO sympathy for Alliance because to me everything Sylvanas has done to Teldrassil was a long time coming. Because the Alliance can't seem to rain in their &#^% for 5 sec.

There is still time for this story to go into a completely direction, but the moment this goes into a rehash rebellion I'm done, I'm walking from this game for good.
Like most long-time non-forsaken hordies, Jakko is no fan of Sylvanas.

Though he doesn't like to talk about it much, because he doesn't want to start *that* kind of conversation down at the local tavern, he has this personal 'conspiracy theory' regarding the Warchief. She didn't put Teldrassil to the torch for strategic reasons or not even to break the night elves' spirit.

She did it to deliberately escalate the conflict.

She knew that half the Horde was skeptical of her, and she knew damn well what happened to the last warchief that the Horde had mixed feelings about. So she did the one thing that would guarantee that the Alliance would take off the kid gloves and seek nothing less than the complete destruction of the Horde. We're talking internment camps at best, and mass executions at worst. That way, the Horde would have no real choice BUT to follow Sylvanas into war because it's either that or take your chances with an Alliance that has long-since run out of reasons to show the Horde an OUNCE of mercy.

And here's the punchline - it worked.

The Alliance is now officially out for blood. Yeah, yeah, their High King is the most peaceful human on the face of the planet, but look at his friends. Genn Greymane, who built a literal wall around his nation and withdrew the Alliance because it decided NOT to just kill all the orcs after the Second War. Then there's Jaina "Dismantle the Horde" Proudmoore, who's recruiting a nation that, like Gilneas, ALSO left the Alliance because it wasn't quite "Anti-Horde" enough for their liking. And who could forget Tyrande Whisperwind who, not only was never much of a fan of the Horde to begin with, but due to recent events, hates the Horde now more than ever!

And you're really gonna tell me that all those guys are gonna just drop their vendettas just because some blonde teenage pretty boy tells them too?

Gimme a break.

Look OP, you can take the high road if you want. But me? I got family and friends to think about. If the Alliance wins this war, what's gonna happen to THEM? I don't about you, but I sure as hell ain't takin' that chance.

Sylvanas may be evil, but you know what? She's not wrong when she says that honor is no good to a corpse. Sure, honor is all fine and dandy when you're winning, but right now, it's a luxury we can't afford. I'd rather be a morally grey winner than a principled loser.

So yeah.

For the Dark Lady.

I guess.
The Horde should be family.

Yet at the same time, Leileran also can't deny that peace is not a simple thing at this point.

Leileran can't abide by Sylvanas being so careless with the lives of the Hordes soldiers, yet also cannot condone Saurfang, of all people, accepting Alliance patronship as a way to make some sort of peace on the Alliance's terms. He feels terrible that he can't pick the lesser evil at the moment - the only condolence he has is that Sylvanas hasn't made any comments about this extremism being a point of 'Forsaken Pride', like the path Garrosh went down.

At this point, he's tired, and powerless, so all he can do is keep doing his work, and pray his people and the Horde make it through in one piece
And what will you do if Sylvanas' Horde wins? At the cost of blighting your family and friends or turning them into abominations? For every soldier lost in this war, Horde or Alliance, Sylvanas' undead numbers grow. Those friends and family you think you're protecting are going to be nothing more than fodder to the Dark Lady, used to contribute to her undead army by either joining it or being used as a fuel source to keep it going.

When all is said and done, how do you think those friends and family will see you, if they make it out alive? Like the war hero you think you'll be, or the monster Sylvanas turned you in to?

The best course of action....no...the only course of action is to dispose of Sylvanas and other blights on the planet. To save the Horde and to save Azeroth. Because if Sylvanas wins, everyone but the undead lose.
Viyk doesn't care. He was conceived years ago as a neutral character in terms of faction pride, and he's doubly more so now as a DK. Sylvanas? He doesn't bow to her, and while he works for and with the Horde for survival's sake, he's not "pro-honor" or "for the Dark Lady!".

He's pro-Viyk first and foremost, and while he's utterly "meh" about gold and riches and bombs...he has a goblin's desire to stay atop the heap (even if he's already an emotionally-blunted corpse, technically). If that means the time comes to turn on Sylvanas because she's going to go down and the chances of siding with her and surviving are slim? Yep, he'll axe her, no questions asked.

Besides, he takes orders from "the Deathlord" at Ebon Hold (yeah, it's supposed to be the player character, but FFS Blizz, thanks for kind of screwing us RPers over because we can't ALL be "the Deathlord", can we?) and maybe the Lich King indirectly, since Bolvar was directing "the Deathlord" all along. Who knows. But he doesn't serve Sylvanas in any case.
I'm as sick as anyone else of Blizz's repeated Horde Warchief being the lynch pin bad guy in yet another expansion. However, I'm even more upset that they'd make Saurfang a turn-coat. A common strain among all of my Orc characters is a blind loyalty to the leader of the Horde. I've already killed off a warrior I'd played since Vanilla after SoO as a member of the Kor'Kron legion on MG. I won't hesitate to do the same for Sylvanas, in spite of her short-comings.
Orcs.
11/04/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Karmas
Orcs.


Orcs?
11/04/2018 02:18 PMPosted by Enekie
11/04/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Karmas
Orcs.


Orcs?


OOOOOOOOOOORCS!!!!!

......

ahem

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