Current state of BM PvP in all forms

Hunter
Rant inc, with the multiple nerfs to BM damage the only place I find success over playing survival is dueling/WPvP and that's only with kiting and eating when the opponent is CC'd. The damage is simply too low I feel like (might be because gearing? feel free to correct me if it is) bestial wrath can be outhealed by many classes fairly easily unless I pop everything with it.. had a DH take about 70k off my health in eyebeam opener, then live through full burst (dire beast, BW, trinket, 2x AotW trait) and come out with more health.. half the time I'll maxrange a fury warrior or ret pally and can't dent their health because our sustain took a big hit..frustrating

Can we hope to see any changes to BM damage in 8.1? I have heard they're not too hot in PvE either..
There bad on purpose, they obviously don't want it being viable in pvp.
It’s sad to say, but BM just isn’t making the cut. For a while I refused to swap to survival but I feel like I’ve had no choice. Now that I’ve done it, I love it. I can only hope that in a patch or two I’ll be able to play some form of range Hunter for pvp and do decent. Until then, survival kicks !@#, just gotta try and make the swap or reroll atm.
11/03/2018 06:17 AMPosted by Smöke
It’s sad to say, but BM just isn’t making the cut. For a while I refused to swap to survival but I feel like I’ve had no choice. Now that I’ve done it, I love it. I can only hope that in a patch or two I’ll be able to play some form of range Hunter for pvp and do decent. Until then, survival kicks !@#, just gotta try and make the swap or reroll atm.


Yeah, BM damage can still be pretty scary with full offensive traits/talents on someone without defensives up, but the problem is our damage is low enough to where we'll never be able to bait defensives against certain "counter" classes (DH specifically). I'm fine with mechanical counter classes but not when that means kiting good, yet losing simply due to our damage not cutting it versus their sustain
11/02/2018 08:59 PMPosted by Kiteflyer
Rant inc, with the multiple nerfs to BM damage the only place I find success over playing survival is dueling/WPvP and that's only with kiting and eating when the opponent is CC'd. The damage is simply too low I feel like (might be because gearing? feel free to correct me if it is) bestial wrath can be outhealed by many classes fairly easily unless I pop everything with it.. had a DH take about 70k off my health in eyebeam opener, then live through full burst (dire beast, BW, trinket, 2x AotW trait) and come out with more health.. half the time I'll maxrange a fury warrior or ret pally and can't dent their health because our sustain took a big hit..frustrating

Can we hope to see any changes to BM damage in 8.1? I have heard they're not too hot in PvE either..


If you play it right you can cuck the DH meta fairly well. You’ll have to trinket the stun immediately and freeze trap. If they trinket you should probably blow all cooldowns, gator, BW and aspect and crows and stun him and pop roar of sac and spirit mend and just stand on your gator and dare him to stand with you. Might have to blow your insta heal too.

If and when you force him to fly in the air that’s your que to hide or use turtle. Enough time should have passed to be able to spirit mend again soon. If he uses darkness just get 50 yards away. If you sit his first stun when he metas and eyebeams he’s probably gonna chunk you so hard you won’t recover.

Ret paladins you just blow them up ASAP to force bubble. Even if they wings don’t save anything or try to ride it out before you burst you gotta get that bubble before they get your turtle. If you can do that you can purge their next BOP and interrupt any flash healing which is their only sustain really.

Double charge fury warriors with a pillar around is the hardest imo. If they are good they will just pillar bestial wrath and hit your pet and heal through all of it. If you play the stand in gator game and dare them to outdamage you through it they will probably win that game too. If they are bad they will just try to mongo at you the whole time and if you use freeze trap and disengage and stun to kite you will wear them down.
11/02/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Algred
There bad on purpose, they obviously don't want it being viable in pvp.


then it shouldn't have honor talents.
if blizzard makes a spec bad on purpose, disable it in PVP instead.
make the intent clear rather than give people false hope for a ranged hunter spec being viable.
11/02/2018 11:50 PMPosted by Algred
There bad on purpose, they obviously don't want it being viable in pvp.


Then blizz needs to just do away with the spec in pvp or make it better. Why keep it when all they are doing is pooping on it?
i ahte to be that guy but honestly i dont feel it should be viable. Maybe thats a little harsh, viable in the sense that it can be played ok, but should not be anywhere near top tier. No spec that relies on as much AI should be for any class in my view.
I always used MM for PvP in the past, but thats such a dumpster fire right now im maining my Druid for the time being instead.
11/05/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Floplag
i ahte to be that guy but honestly i dont feel it should be viable. Maybe thats a little harsh, viable in the sense that it can be played ok, but should not be anywhere near top tier. No spec that relies on as much AI should be for any class in my view.
I always used MM for PvP in the past, but thats such a dumpster fire right now im maining my Druid for the time being instead.

thats just stupid what are dots but AI? what about warlocks Dks they use nothing but AI thats just an ignorant statement. Oh hell i apoligize I just looked you up and you dont even PVP been playing 10 years and have 50k hk's
11/05/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Floplag
i ahte to be that guy but honestly i dont feel it should be viable. Maybe thats a little harsh, viable in the sense that it can be played ok, but should not be anywhere near top tier. No spec that relies on as much AI should be for any class in my view.
I always used MM for PvP in the past, but thats such a dumpster fire right now im maining my Druid for the time being instead.


You realize the majority of pet damage is kill command and the hunters ability to keep the frenzy buff up right? Without these two things our pets do literally no damage. Us pressing kill command or barbed shot is NO different then a warrior pressing mortal strike. It's STILL USERS CONTROLLED. The ignorance of people is what got this spec nerfed. The sad part is BM is one of the few classes who have a legit counter play built into them by the nature of how they do damage. And instead of LEARNING HOW TO PLAY BETTER people cried until it was nerfed into the ground. It's pathetic. Truly.

Edit Add

I'm 371 ilvl This is on a PVP target dummy.

[14:32:31] [S] [120:Kronïe]: Recount - Damage Done for Last Fight
[14:32:31] [S] [120:Kronïe]: 1. Kronïe 655,992 (3739.6, 97.7%)
[14:32:31] [S] [120:Kronïe]: 2. Kronie <Kronïe> 360,857 (2057.1, 53.7%)
[14:32:31] [S] [120:Kronïe]: 3. Radioplate 15,216 (2892.8, 2.2%

That's my pet going full ham by himself. NO USER INPUT. 2k dps for just over 3 mins. I didn't use kill command. That's user controlled. I didn't use barbed shot. Same thing. JUST PET. I blew racial primal instincts and BW (on cd) and auto attacked.

Here is 3 mins of normal game play
[14:44:18] [S] [120:Kronïe]: 1. Kronïe 1,734,688 (9077.9, 100%)
[14:44:18] [S] [120:Kronïe]: 2. Kronie <Kronïe> 815,559 (4267.9, 47%

Wow look at that. My pet damage over DOUBLED.So 50-60% of our pets damage is directly controlled by the HUNTER. End of this stupid discussion forever. To those that get mad there's a pet on them. I wish i could root/trap/fear/sleep warlock, spriest, or moonkin dots.
11/05/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Floplag
i ahte to be that guy but honestly i dont feel it should be viable. Maybe thats a little harsh, viable in the sense that it can be played ok, but should not be anywhere near top tier. No spec that relies on as much AI should be for any class in my view.
I always used MM for PvP in the past, but thats such a dumpster fire right now im maining my Druid for the time being instead.


One of our ranged specs -needs- to be viable.
It's disgusting blizzard nerfed bm to push melee hunter in PVP, and didn't fix marksman at the same time.

I couldn't give 2 !@#$s what people think about how "easy" a spec is, or how uninformed they are about it being an "ai" spec, when it isn't. One of our ranged specs has to be viable, always. survival should be a choice, not mandatory to succeed.
With the amount of absolute absurd no effort required crap I see other specs pull off in pvp there is no justifiable reason period, to leave BM mid to bottom tier.

There are a ton of ways to buff the spec without making op or whatever. It's laziness to just ignore the spec.

Are they really going to do what they did in Legion? Make the spec bottom tier and just leave it there to rot for the entire expansion?
Bm is ok on damage it needs like 10%pet basic attack buff back out of the 18% last nerf hit us way to hard. Biggest problem i see is ability to trap is hard at top tier real hard. Intimidate isnt reliable. Pet takes to long to leave its original target to stun focus and can only do this every other trap. Pet travel time to focus target then back to kill target takes days. In 2s this causes bad issues. In 3s its ok still if ur partners are well timed but still weaker than other viable options like survival. Its sad but bm has taken the back seat every expac to survival aside from a few op mistake moments from blizzard. Long live ghost crawler. Never new how good we had it in bc when arena was solid.
11/06/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Thuperduper
Bm is ok on damage it needs like 10%pet basic attack buff back out of the 18% last nerf hit us way to hard. Biggest problem i see is ability to trap is hard at top tier real hard. Intimidate isnt reliable. Pet takes to long to leave its original target to stun focus and can only do this every other trap. Pet travel time to focus target then back to kill target takes days. In 2s this causes bad issues. In 3s its ok still if ur partners are well timed but still weaker than other viable options like survival. Its sad but bm has taken the back seat every expac to survival aside from a few op mistake moments from blizzard. Long live ghost crawler. Never new how good we had it in bc when arena was solid.
You speaking of pet travel time is spot on, in bgs my pet is constantly cc’d and there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it except watch them run at 50% speed everywhere or be sheeped/rooted...we really need glyph of men’s pet back
11/06/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Boblamey
11/06/2018 06:23 AMPosted by Thuperduper
Bm is ok on damage it needs like 10%pet basic attack buff back out of the 18% last nerf hit us way to hard. Biggest problem i see is ability to trap is hard at top tier real hard. Intimidate isnt reliable. Pet takes to long to leave its original target to stun focus and can only do this every other trap. Pet travel time to focus target then back to kill target takes days. In 2s this causes bad issues. In 3s its ok still if ur partners are well timed but still weaker than other viable options like survival. Its sad but bm has taken the back seat every expac to survival aside from a few op mistake moments from blizzard. Long live ghost crawler. Never new how good we had it in bc when arena was solid.
You speaking of pet travel time is spot on, in bgs my pet is constantly cc’d and there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it except watch them run at 50% speed everywhere or be sheeped/rooted...we really need glyph of men’s pet back

You gotta make the choice between: Spirit Beast or Cunning Pet. Spirit Beast gives a great defensive cooldown and spirit mend. Cunning Pet gives Masters Call. It's a hard choice to make, but lately that cunning pet just seems be the move with all the cc going. I don't think it'll break polly but no roots so you can keep your pet on target and keep kiting so you can save defensive cooldowns. Masters Call also has pretty low cooldown on it. I think us BM hunters rely on our Spirit Beasts to much and are sleeping on cunning pets. Spirit Beast is great for arena 2s when your not teamed up with a healer, but any form of BG or WPVP I make the swap to cunning pet unless we have no heals and Im getting trained.
11/02/2018 08:59 PMPosted by Kiteflyer
Rant inc, with the multiple nerfs to BM damage the only place I find success over playing survival is dueling/WPvP and that's only with kiting and eating when the opponent is CC'd. The damage is simply too low I feel like (might be because gearing? feel free to correct me if it is) bestial wrath can be outhealed by many classes fairly easily unless I pop everything with it.. had a DH take about 70k off my health in eyebeam opener, then live through full burst (dire beast, BW, trinket, 2x AotW trait) and come out with more health.. half the time I'll maxrange a fury warrior or ret pally and can't dent their health because our sustain took a big hit..frustrating

Can we hope to see any changes to BM damage in 8.1? I have heard they're not too hot in PvE either..


PvP they aren't good. Anyone that says they aren't good in PvE are severely mistaken though. Good AoE, good ST. BM is very strong in mythics and raid.
BM is fine in pvp and pve. Still glad viable even after the nerfs. Buff kill command and cobra shot by 25% and give BM scattershot and it would be T1
11/06/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Smöke
11/06/2018 10:10 AMPosted by Boblamey
...You speaking of pet travel time is spot on, in bgs my pet is constantly cc’d and there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it except watch them run at 50% speed everywhere or be sheeped/rooted...we really need glyph of men’s pet back

You gotta make the choice between: Spirit Beast or Cunning Pet. Spirit Beast gives a great defensive cooldown and spirit mend. Cunning Pet gives Masters Call. It's a hard choice to make, but lately that cunning pet just seems be the move with all the cc going. I don't think it'll break polly but no roots so you can keep your pet on target and keep kiting so you can save defensive cooldowns. Masters Call also has pretty low cooldown on it. I think us BM hunters rely on our Spirit Beasts to much and are sleeping on cunning pets. Spirit Beast is great for arena 2s when your not teamed up with a healer, but any form of BG or WPVP I make the swap to cunning pet unless we have no heals and Im getting trained.


Masters call is gonna lose quite a bit of usefullness once frost mage nerfs go through. 95% of my pet being slowed in BGs is orb or blizzard.

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