Horde players: Who will you pick?

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Sylvanas gave the Horde blight throwers at Lordaeron. She will always have my allegiance.
11/06/2018 05:53 PMPosted by Yersynia
11/06/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Draile
If statistics end up showing the Horde chose Sylvanas over all, the Horde will truly be dead to me.

Because then I'll know, once and for all, that the Horde CHOSE to be conquerors instead of heroes.


Have you read the thread? Most of us are choosing a giant middle finger to this entire plot point. We know what the Horde’s identity is, and we don’t want another stupid guilt trip over events we were written into performing. Nor do many of us want to have this whole mess ‘restore’ the Horde to a Noblebright blandfest when the damned game launched with 25% of the Horde as undeniably darker in tone.

I didn’t like the Burning, to be honest. But I would have pulled the lever on those catapults if they’d let me - I’m sick of being told that atrocities are meant to be my moments of satisfaction, but at the same time judged for consuming content I paid for and that is our only story. I refuse to be self-loathing, and I refuse to be mad at Sylvanas for all of this when all I see from her in BfA is a fellow victim of this !@#$ narrative.

We’re not choosing to be conquerors. The game chose that for us - we’re just choosing to determine our own fate. And sure as %^-* the alternative isn’t heroism.


Majority of BE posters i have seen on the forums support sylvannas and they + the forsaken make up well over 55% of the horde. So it wont surprise me at all if the end result is a 65 / 35 split for sylvannas in the end.
11/06/2018 12:17 PMPosted by Éamon
11/06/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Lyionn
Brennadam


11/06/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Lyionn
all these are places that got what was coming to them for one reason to another

A random farming village in a currently unaffiliated nation had it coming?
A nation that was working close with the Alliance at this point and has history doing so in the past. A nation that has no love for the Horde.

So yes. It sure did.
11/06/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Doomgard
Majority of BE posters i have seen on the forums support sylvannas and they + the forsaken make up well over 55% of the horde. So it wont surprise me at all if the end result is a 65 / 35 split for sylvannas in the end


Actually, checking WoW Census, Forsaken/Blood elves make up roughly 48% of the Horde's level 120 player base.

I don't know where you got "Well over 55%" from. Hyperbole?
Sylvanas, because of spite against what Blizzard had done and what they did Saurfang. Saurfang is no longer fit to come back to the Horde, i would rather see him start a natural faction then him being part of the Horde story anymore.
11/06/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Bronnix
Sylvanas. I dont want a stupid civil war story retread.
Picking Sylvanas =/= choosing stability. You're going to get a civil war retread regardless of who you choose. You're just picking which side you'll be supporting.
Saurfang.

It isn't easy. Blizz has done a good job of depriving us of easy choices. Before BfA, I admired Saurfang. Now? I mostly empathize with him. He's broken, battered, and tired. Survivor's Guilt and PTSD have always been part of his character, but it's gotten much more potent with more cause. Setting aside any judgment on the quality of writing (something on which you all know my stance, already) they've shown us his clay feet.

If CDev had shown any proclivity for nuance or tact, I'd wonder if Saurfang's arc wasn't a deliberate statement on the nature of heroes, how they will always disappoint us in the end if we expect them to be more than people. If it were, it would be almost beautiful: for all his strength, for all his history, Varok is only mortal, and he has limits.

It's not, of course. They think this will inspire us. Look at him, going off to Save the Horde! This has been a running theme for this expansion- interesting ideas and beats, carried out in the worst way possible. It's alright for Saurfang to need guidance, or motivation to finally commit. It's not alright for those things to come from the Alliance.

Still, I will take someone broken and flawed over someone that's been lying to us. Someone who considers a strike on a purely civilian population to be an acceptable tactic. Someone who constantly and knowingly escalates the state of warfare. Per BtS, it is canon that the peace Sylvanas seeks is that of a dead world at her feet. Per A Good War, her goals are not our goals. Her interests are not the Horde's interests, and she is dragging our spirit through the blighted sewers of her abandoned city, taking the lowest road possible at any junction, all for nothing- her "morally gray" tactics aren't even more successful than conventional warfare, as we are repeatedly shown. Nothing is worth setting an entire island full of civilians ablaze. Danger Close bombardments happen, and can't always be helped, but defiling our dead was a choice, and not a justified one. Finally, while taking Jaina off the board is a useful move, the mental anguish that the Proudmoores will feel at being killed by one of their own has NO TACTICAL VALUE in and of itself, and each atrocity she adds to the list makes it worse for both sides- she's doubling down on an all-or-nothing war of extermination, which is fundamentally unnecessary.

I mourn for the Horde. I mourn for Saurfang's dignity. I mourn for Sylvanas' entire characterization. I don't know why they've been so determined to undermine our affection for our characters, but this is the hand we've been dealt, and, if they force the choice, my Horde is a family, not a quiver.
11/07/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Rathi
11/06/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Bronnix
Sylvanas. I dont want a stupid civil war story retread.
Picking Sylvanas =/= choosing stability. You're going to get a civil war retread regardless of who you choose. You're just picking which side you'll be supporting.


This pretty much. They can pick Sylvanas all they want. We KNOW she is getting replaced by the end of BFA regardless. Enjoy it while you can lol.
Always and forever Saurfang.
If even 50% of the horde picks sylvanas then doesn't killing her off and making us follow saurfang's honorable horde seem like a spit in the face? This isn't an election for who runs a united horde. This is a horde, proven to have two ideologies, and must choose one of those sides at the cost of the other.
11/07/2018 08:18 AMPosted by Kirango
Saurfang.

It isn't easy. Blizz has done a good job of depriving us of easy choices. Before BfA, I admired Saurfang. Now? I mostly empathize with him. He's broken, battered, and tired. Survivor's Guilt and PTSD have always been part of his character, but it's gotten much more potent with more cause. Setting aside any judgment on the quality of writing (something on which you all know my stance, already) they've shown us his clay feet.

If CDev had shown any proclivity for nuance or tact, I'd wonder if Saurfang's arc wasn't a deliberate statement on the nature of heroes, how they will always disappoint us in the end if we expect them to be more than people. If it were, it would be almost beautiful: for all his strength, for all his history, Varok is only mortal, and he has limits.

It's not, of course. They think this will inspire us. Look at him, going off to Save the Horde! This has been a running theme for this expansion- interesting ideas and beats, carried out in the worst way possible. It's alright for Saurfang to need guidance, or motivation to finally commit. It's not alright for those things to come from the Alliance.

Still, I will take someone broken and flawed over someone that's been lying to us. Someone who considers a strike on a purely civilian population to be an acceptable tactic. Someone who constantly and knowingly escalates the state of warfare. Per BtS, it is canon that the peace Sylvanas seeks is that of a dead world at her feet. Per A Good War, her goals are not our goals. Her interests are not the Horde's interests, and she is dragging our spirit through the blighted sewers of her abandoned city, taking the lowest road possible at any junction, all for nothing- her "morally gray" tactics aren't even more successful than conventional warfare, as we are repeatedly shown. Nothing is worth setting an entire island full of civilians ablaze. Danger Close bombardments happen, and can't always be helped, but defiling our dead was a choice, and not a justified one. Finally, while taking Jaina off the board is a useful move, the mental anguish that the Proudmoores will feel at being killed by one of their own has NO TACTICAL VALUE in and of itself, and each atrocity she adds to the list makes it worse for both sides- she's doubling down on an all-or-nothing war of extermination, which is fundamentally unnecessary.

I mourn for the Horde. I mourn for Saurfang's dignity. I mourn for Sylvanas' entire characterization. I don't know why they've been so determined to undermine our affection for our characters, but this is the hand we've been dealt, and, if they force the choice, my Horde is a family, not a quiver.


Beautifully put.
11/07/2018 08:18 AMPosted by Kirango

I mourn for the Horde. I mourn for Saurfang's dignity. I mourn for Sylvanas' entire characterization. I don't know why they've been so determined to undermine our affection for our characters, but this is the hand we've been dealt, and, if they force the choice, my Horde is a family, not a quiver.


Very well said. I totally understand this as a choice, and hell I even agree with just about everything you've said.

This is why I am holding out hope for some kind of reconciliation, and not another rebellion. Even if I am not allowed to actually take Sylvanas' side should push come to shove, it is infuriating to be forced into even ideological conflict with the parts of the faction I have loved for well over a decade, and with whom I've co-existed with just fine until now. I like people like yourself, Treng and Pyrogar. I want to have a storyline where I can stand side by side with them against blue team or the horror of the year, not another stupid civil war.

Nazgrim really did put it best, in V1 of this !@#$show:

General Nazgrim yells: So, it has come to this. Together, we have learned and grown over the years, and now we find ourselves face to face on the battlefield. Do not think I will go easy on you, nor do I expect any quarter. What we do now, we do for the horde, both of us.
11/07/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Ximothy
I don't know where you got "Well over 55%" from. Hyperbole?


Well, if you toss Nightborne into that, it becomes 52%
They've pretty much ruined Saurfang for me. His journey back to the Horde should have been about strength and independence. Instead it was about an act of kindness from Anduin, or alligning of goals, or enemy of my enemy is my friend, how ever you want to put it.

Fact is he required the alliance's help to get back to the horde, and that just pisses me off. He also abandoned us, not just the Sylvanas followers, ALL OF US. He chose to stay in a cell, while hoping anduin defeated sylvanas. What if Saurfang got what he wanted? "His Horde" would be without a leader, with him still stuck in prison, where he chose to be. So when his own Horde comes to rescue him, it's not enough to bring him back, but when Anduin asks him.....

screw Saurfang. I'm only on Team Sylvanas because I don't want yet another Horde leader becoming Garrosh. Even though Bliz has told us she isn't Garrosh 2.0, they sure are spending a lot of time making us think she is, which is just as bad.
Give Saurfang the benefit of the doubt, he was emotional and not thinking clearly. It doesn't make it right, but he is not himself. The best thing he can do now is join the fray in Darkshore, remove Malfurion's head from his shoulders, give it to Sylvanas and demands that she steps because her ascension was a shame.

I'm no longer a fan of him becoming Warchief anymore, that door has been slammed shut.
Saurfang.

The writing team have done everything in their power to make him into a mockery, but I still choose him over the Lich Queen without hesitation.

I am rather demoralized by being continually informed that performing atrocities should somehow count as "faction pride" for me. I don't want the Horde to become bland and Noblebright, but Sylvanas' Horde has delved too far into the other end of the spectrum.

Maybe Thrall or Vol'jin will come back and save us from our game of Musical Warchiefs...?
It says a lot that so many Horde players are willing to choose Sylvanas even after everything she has done. And will do. Doesn't she want to make everyone undead? 'All will serve me in the end?' Was Garrosh also this popular in Mists of Pandaria among the Horde playerbase?

P.S. The forum title should have read, "Sylvanas, Saurfang or Thrall?"
Man, there is a part of me that would laugh so hard if the reason this wont be a MoP retread (beyond my hopes that Saurfang is NOT starting a rebellion, but rather retrieving Thrall) is that if push-comes-to-shove ... Sylvanas ups and bails on the Warchief position she never wanted; should that Warchief position become to dangerous for her. She'll exploit and use the Horde in this war to get as close to her "true objective" as possible, then if that Horde ceases to be a "useful tool" she'll disappear and leave us with the check for the War she started. :D

Whatever she's doing ... she's in the endgame now (which even she admits has happened sooner than expected, but it was expected). Which route that endgame takes her ... who knows?
11/08/2018 05:24 AMPosted by Belandas
It says a lot that so many Horde players are willing to choose Sylvanas even after everything she has done. And will do. Doesn't she want to make everyone undead? 'All will serve me in the end?' Was Garrosh also this popular in Mists of Pandaria among the Horde playerbase?

P.S. The forum title should have read, "Sylvanas, Saurfang or Thrall?"


At this point I have so much contempt for Baine and Saurfang, Sylvanas could be a literal old god.

In fact, our first old god Warchief would be kind of rad.

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