Classic is wayyyyy more difficult than retail

Classic Discussion
11/08/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Tarythia
Correction:

Classic will be way more time consuming than Retail.

Not more difficult.
Log into the classic demo.

Now log into retail and do some open world content.

The classic demo is so obviously more difficult and punishing that it's not even funny.

Nobody cares how hard Naxx is. Most people won't set foot in it anyway, and that's okay. We care how hard the open world is. The live game is too easy for too long, and then throws you off a cliff edge at max level and hope you fly. Some people do, a lot of people don't.
11/08/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Tarythia
Correction:

Classic will be way more time consuming than Retail.

Not more difficult.


This will be one of the first clowns to facepull 3 mobs in the starter zone, get rekt, and come QQing to the forums.

Bet on it.
At the top end? absolutely not.
but at the bottom? definitely.
Classic has a narrower skill gap, whereas in retail you can be anything from a brain dead monkey, all the way up too...well <Method>
11/09/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Spy
11/08/2018 06:37 PMPosted by Fyedora
Vanilla WoW has a much higher skill floor while leveling.

Retail WoW is pretty much mindlessly easy while leveling, but at end game heroic dungeons and mythic raiding the skill ceiling shoots into the stratosphere.

Vanilla WoW difficulty is often more about strategy and resource/threat management, whereas Retail WoW can be purely twitch based and otherwise streamlined.

That's pretty much it. They are drastically different games.


It wasn't "just" with leveling and raiding though. Professions have been gutted, there are no keys or attunes you need. There are no more dungeons that take more than 20 walking down a hallway and you actually had to go to the dungeons instead of teleporting there. You had reagents/ammo/soulstones/poisons to remember. You can argue about how difficult those things were, but they added a layer to the game that has been removed.


I completely agree, hence why I said "Vanilla WoW difficulty is often more about strategy and resource/threat management." Like you said, Vanilla put a lot more responsibility on the player to figure the game out and organize things for themselves, whereas Retail streamlined and pruned all those elements out. I prefer Vanilla :-)
It was the first time through.

I've got 12 more years of WoW experience now. It won't be hard this time through. I know exactly what I'm in for.
Different kind of difficulty if we are being honest here. It's kind of like how gambling is hard. Some say there is technique to it when in reality most gambling is pretty much luck based. Nobody cares about the difficulty in retail when the game is pretty much Diablo 3 with a subscription. You might as well just go play Diablo 3 since both games function pretty similarly.
Only people who dont understand or have never experienced mythic/heroic raiding can possibly think vanilla was any hard, most fights are tank and spank jokes, even 4 horseman is a joke. It will also only be made easier by new addons and 1.12 talents, raid difficulty for classic will hover between LFR and normal.
11/09/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Zenshigen
Only people who dont understand or have never experienced mythic/heroic raiding can possibly think vanilla was any hard, most fights are tank and spank jokes, even 4 horseman is a joke. It will also only be made easier by new addons and 1.12 talents, raid difficulty for classic will hover between LFR and normal.
You need 8 tanks to do 4 horseman in Vanilla and generally you were only gearing 3 with a limited amount of loot available.... good luck even meeting the requirements for it.
11/09/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Zenshigen
Only people who dont understand or have never experienced mythic/heroic raiding can possibly think vanilla was any hard, most fights are tank and spank jokes, even 4 horseman is a joke. It will also only be made easier by new addons and 1.12 talents, raid difficulty for classic will hover between LFR and normal.


at the highest end live is harder. that said, anything below Heroic Difficulty raiding or Mythic + dungeons is easier on live.
11/09/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Zenshigen
Only people who dont understand or have never experienced mythic/heroic raiding can possibly think vanilla was any hard, most fights are tank and spank jokes, even 4 horseman is a joke. It will also only be made easier by new addons and 1.12 talents, raid difficulty for classic will hover between LFR and normal.


I don't think anyone is saying that it was harder than mythic. What people are saying is that the other 99% of the game was harder.
11/09/2018 07:42 AMPosted by Matcauthon
11/09/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Zenshigen
Only people who dont understand or have never experienced mythic/heroic raiding can possibly think vanilla was any hard, most fights are tank and spank jokes, even 4 horseman is a joke. It will also only be made easier by new addons and 1.12 talents, raid difficulty for classic will hover between LFR and normal.


at the highest end live is harder. that said, anything below Heroic Difficulty raiding or Mythic + dungeons is easier on live.


Most fights on normal are slighty more complex than vanilla fights tbh. Dungeons on basic mythic are easy but as soon as you start adding fortified and tyrannical affixes difficulty scales up super quick.
I don't think the reason people want to play classic is the raid difficulty, retail is much harder unless you are doing the joke difficulties. Also trash packs in mythic + have more mechanics than a lot of vanilla bosses.
11/08/2018 10:00 AMPosted by Buzzkeel
I have been reading people claiming vanilla is easier than retail since the retail has more complicated boss fights like not standing in fire and avoiding bad stuff. I can't wait until these people walk into naxx the first time and wipe on trash or get to a boss and realize they needed to farm resistance gear. Not to mention getting attuned before they can even set foot inside. I think once they release naxx all the retail players will slowly shrink back to retail and we will finally have the game to ourselves to wipe in naxx over and over. I plan on playing casual this time around but to beat vanilla you cannot be a casual. You have to make it your life. I am ok with not getting by naxx though as I didn't the first time either. I came close I guess but not close enough. So glad vanilla is back no more easy street!


Oh look, A post made about difficulty that they've never even experienced unless you count the 1 AOTC they probably paid for.

Please actually have some raid experience in the content you're criticising before making posts that make you look foolish.
11/09/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Zenshigen
11/09/2018 07:42 AMPosted by Matcauthon
...

at the highest end live is harder. that said, anything below Heroic Difficulty raiding or Mythic + dungeons is easier on live.


Most fights on normal are slighty more complex than vanilla fights tbh. Dungeons on basic mythic are easy but as soon as you start adding fortified and tyrannical affixes difficulty scales up super quick.


I think you're also forgetting that threat, aggro and positioning matter and that CC is huge in almost every vanilla dungeon/raid. Few classes had AoE and those that did and overused it died pretty quickly. Not to mention you had to get creative on some fights to deal with mobs, such as kiting or evasion tanking.

Again, not saying it's harder than mythic raids or all high level mythic +, but there was difficulty there, just of a different kind.
11/09/2018 08:10 AMPosted by Spy
11/09/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Zenshigen
...

Most fights on normal are slighty more complex than vanilla fights tbh. Dungeons on basic mythic are easy but as soon as you start adding fortified and tyrannical affixes difficulty scales up super quick.


I think you're also forgetting that threat, aggro and positioning matter and that CC is huge in almost every vanilla dungeon/raid. Few classes had AoE and those that did and overused it died pretty quickly. Not to mention you had to get creative on some fights to deal with mobs, such as kiting or evasion tanking.

Again, not saying it's harder than mythic raids or all high level mythic +, but there was difficulty there, just of a different kind.


Positioning in raids is way more complex in current raids than it was in vanilla when you are dealing with 2 or 3 mechanics raid at the same time.
11/09/2018 08:10 AMPosted by Spy
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Most fights on normal are slighty more complex than vanilla fights tbh. Dungeons on basic mythic are easy but as soon as you start adding fortified and tyrannical affixes difficulty scales up super quick.


I think you're also forgetting that threat, aggro and positioning matter and that CC is huge in almost every vanilla dungeon/raid. Few classes had AoE and those that did and overused it died pretty quickly. Not to mention you had to get creative on some fights to deal with mobs, such as kiting or evasion tanking.

Again, not saying it's harder than mythic raids or all high level mythic +, but there was difficulty there, just of a different kind.


Exactly. I recently tanked a gnomer full run on an authentic classic pserver. I also tanked Cata heroics in retail. Both are difficult, but in drastically different ways.

Cata heroics were heavily streamlined loot hallways. The difficulty came from boss fights with mechanics that could instant-kill if you didn't obey them, and just in general tended towards twitch-reaction difficulty, with lots of button mashing.

Gnomer is difficult because of strategy, situational awareness, and patience. You need to watch pats, you need to watch running mobs. You need to figure out where to go, and if anyone has the workshop key. You need to keep your group organized, and if anyone falls of a ledge they could accidentally pull half the dungeon. Then pile onto this that holding threat is drastically harder in vanilla (even in 1.12) than it has been in retail for years, and that whatever tank you're using will be resource starved and can't spam AOE abilities to hold threat.
11/09/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Zenshigen
11/09/2018 07:42 AMPosted by Matcauthon
...

at the highest end live is harder. that said, anything below Heroic Difficulty raiding or Mythic + dungeons is easier on live.


Most fights on normal are slighty more complex than vanilla fights tbh. Dungeons on basic mythic are easy but as soon as you start adding fortified and tyrannical affixes difficulty scales up super quick.
thus why I said mythic +
Look the difference is that for your average player of wow (non heroic raiders and above, non mythic + dungeon runners), classic wow will be harder.
11/08/2018 11:01 AMPosted by Cloakandpoke
11/08/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Tarythia
Correction:

Classic will be way more time consuming than Retail.

Not more difficult.


This is spot on, although it is a bit harder to level.

Mythic content is no joke, and encounters are far from the simple encounters that many of Vanillas raids were. The primary difficulty of Classic raiding is going to be finding 39 other people to show up regularly and stay focused for at least 2 hours.

Haha...a bit harder! Oh you know....just a bit harder. A wee bit harder...

How many people who played the demo died the first time they pulled more than one mob?? LoL just a bit harder....and how hard do you have to try and die while leveling from 1 to 120 in BfA??

It is definitely time...but it's also being a single, solitary, measly little peon in a dangerous world.
It is actually a pretty complex debate, and heavily relies on the type of experience you're looking for. I would say, for the average player, Vanilla was more difficult. But Retail provides a lot more difficulty at the top end if you're willing to do it.
11/08/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Tarythia
Correction:

Classic will be way more time consuming than Retail.

Not more difficult.
Correction:

The OP was right. You sure can't pull many mobs in the Demo, unless you want to get pwned. So it's not a matter of time consumption, but of not being able to faceroll mobs like you can in Retail. That speaks to difficulty, not time.

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