Rejuvenate weak in BFA M+?

Druid
10/09/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Grìz
10/09/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Mulcha
if you're struggling with single target output, consider double swiftmend build with soul of the forest.
Is this was most are running in m+? Was thinking about picking resto back up and love this build.


Personally I enjoy using cenarion ward a bit more, but given the recent skittish week I felt it important to have as many catch up options as I could, and double swiftmend has proven flexible.

I know Methods druids pushing the tippy top tier content use ward, but for the time being I'm having plenty of success with the 2x swiftmend + soul build in the 7-9 range.
I find it really encouraging that Resto Druids are finding success with a variety of talents and play styles. That said, I wish we could move beyond the "my way is the only correct way to play" arguments.
Don't think anyone was doing that. Hell I typically take abundance for m+, though after yesterday's chat I tried Cenarion Ward in Tol Dagor 10 last night and it felt solid.

There is a pervasive misconception that prosperity doubles your available swiftmends, and that is just not the case due to how the charges work and the fact that baseline swiftmend stays with you even if you take a different talent in that row.
I find it interesting to read what y'all are saying compared to what M+ guides I've found are saying.

I've been trying out a build that a M+ guide stated to use, but the build a few of you are talking about is what I used to use.

So y'all feel that Cenarion ward and Flourish are stronger for M+?

The build I saw says to use Abundance and Germination. Yet, I feel that this is causing more mana issues for me. I can see why it may be good, but as for mana, not so much. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with their build, heh.
just gonna go ahead a hijack this thread for another question since we discussed mastery a little bit. Im still fuzzy on how it works.

The wording in the tool tip implies that it increases healing for each hot "on that target". does this mean only the hots on one target get a mastery buff?

For example.. the tank has 3 hots, and i have 1 rejuv.
The rejuv on me is unaffected by mastery?

I was always under the impression it was all hots on anyone would increase healing on all heals. basically the more hots the better.

and If this is true then doesnt that make mastery a garbage stat for raiding?
10/10/2018 04:38 PMPosted by ßlué
I find it interesting to read what y'all are saying compared to what M+ guides I've found are saying.

I've been trying out a build that a M+ guide stated to use, but the build a few of you are talking about is what I used to use.

So y'all feel that Cenarion ward and Flourish are stronger for M+?

The build I saw says to use Abundance and Germination. Yet, I feel that this is causing more mana issues for me. I can see why it may be good, but as for mana, not so much. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with their build, heh.


It really depends on your group/dungeon/affixes.

The more time you can spend dpsing with feral affinity the less you are going to want abundance and germination. Where as if you are in caster form most the time and want to maximize your hps then abundance and germ are your best bet.

The more time you spend in cat form, the more you will like the more set it and forget it type heals (spring blossoms, cultivation, photo, and cenarion ward) rather than the higher throughput options that require you to stop dpsing. This is also why some people like prosperity. If healing is low overall and only has occasional spikes, then you can sit in cat form until spikes, pop out, and have two quick swiftmend charges and get back into cat form. Whether that is worth dropping cenarion ward or abundance is what we were discussing (though abundance was kinda left out if the discussion).

That said, if you are new to m+ and doing higher affixes do not focus on doing damage right off the bat. Gauge your group and go from there.

Also, in dungeons mana typically shouldn't be a big issue. You can drink before pulls and your mana pot timer is resetting whenever you drop combat.
10/10/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Tical
just gonna go ahead a hijack this thread for another question since we discussed mastery a little bit. Im still fuzzy on how it works.

The wording in the tool tip implies that it increases healing for each hot "on that target". does this mean only the hots on one target get a mastery buff?

For example.. the tank has 3 hots, and i have 1 rejuv.
The rejuv on me is unaffected by mastery?

I was always under the impression it was all hots on anyone would increase healing on all heals. basically the more hots the better.

and If this is true then doesnt that make mastery a garbage stat for raiding?


Each hot gets increased by your mastery even if it is your only hot. Then each additional hot increases the healing of that spell further. Your rejuv for example is gaining its own mastery buff when you cast it. Adding a lifebloom then adds another stack (and similarly the lifebloom is getting its own mastery buff and one from the rejuv). This is only based on hots on that player, your hots on yourself aren't impacting the mastery benefit of hots on the tank for example.

Mastery is typically your best healing stat in dungeons because your average hots on each target will be higher with only 5 targets rather than 10-30 targets. You can track your mastery values in raids and dungeons with the healer stat weight addon if you are curious where you are at.

That said, mastery doesn't fall too behind depending on your raid size, talent choices, spell usage, and current stat breakdown. If you are running talents that provide extra hots on the raid (cenarion ward, spring blossoms, cultivation - if it is procing) then your mastery value will be higher than if you aren't. Similarly if you have really low mastery percentage then it will likely have a much higher stat weight as all of our secondary stats interact with one another in various ways.
Mastery is generally not great in raids, correct. Not like, total garbage, but haste is more important to churn out more ticks. You almost have to pick specific traits and talents for mastery to even be all that viable in raids unless you're just rolling everything on the tank and almost nothing else.
10/10/2018 01:52 PMPosted by Dasilias

There is a pervasive misconception that prosperity doubles your available swiftmends, and that is just not the case due to how the charges work and the fact that baseline swiftmend stays with you even if you take a different talent in that row.


Swiftmend has 1 charge baseline. Prosperity gives you 2 charges. Prosperity literally doubles your available swiftmends.

I get that over time it takes 3.3 minutes or something to gain an extra yadda yadda...

I don't cast swiftmend after every cooldown. I cast it when I need it. Sometimes crap happens and I need 2. I like having 2.

If you have a piece of gear with Grove Tending now your Swiftmend has a hot that effects your mastery and lasts 1 sec longer than CW.

Sometimes I use 3x Grove Tending...

Currently:

My Swiftmend = 20,350
My Swiftmend hot = 23,574 over 9 secs
CW = 23,909

I get almost twice the healing of a CW every 25 sec and I can control when it heals. I dunno. I like it.

I also hate Abundance, Wild Charge, Tree of Life, Inner Peace, and Flourish so what do I know
10/10/2018 07:27 PMPosted by Kitteh
I get almost twice the healing of a CW every 25 sec and I can control when it heals.


You get that regardless since switmend is available to all resto druids.
So its a moot point.

It was already pointed out.
Swiftmend has 1 charge baseline. Prosperity gives you 2 charges. Prosperity literally doubles your available swiftmends.


No. It doubles your available swiftmends at the very start of the dungeon. You'll probably blow both early because you didn't spec into stronger preemptive hots, and after that you get one swiftmend every 22s and are right back to praying it comes up again in time. You'll rarely get both charges back unless your DPS is seriously lacking at the end of pulls or there's significant downtime between pulls.

You can still get Soul on the normal Swiftmend cooldown. In the long run it's very slightly slower (as in, you'd get one less Swiftmend after almost 5 minutes), but you also get Ward to play with, which keeps the tank alive through mastery and gives you downtime to keep steadier control of the fight.

If your DPS aren't controlling the pack and/or standing in fire, yes, you want Prosperity. There are a couple spot-heavy fights you want it anyway on Tyrannical. But by mid-level M+ and the players you want with you for them, Ward usually wins out because it gives you downtime to play utility and DPS early in the pull when it matters most.

It's essentially a higher reward for the entire party hitting a better skill gate. Other healers are better at carrying bad DPS who get hit hard and suddenly. We're kind of awful at it because all of our good stuff has to be up 2-3 GCDs ahead of time, and if we get behind at all things tend to spiral quickly into Regrowth spam to stay alive second by second. We're awful at healing bad teams and fantastic at healing spotless ones.
Yeah I still don't get the appeal. It just feels incredibly clunky to me. If I ever have trouble healing I'll give CW a try though.
10/11/2018 12:16 AMPosted by Sevaryn
No. It doubles your available swiftmends at the very start of the dungeon. You'll probably blow both early because you didn't spec into stronger preemptive hots, and after that you get one swiftmend every 22s and are right back to praying it comes up again in time. You'll rarely get both charges back unless your DPS is seriously lacking at the end of pulls or there's significant downtime between pulls.
It's a bit more nuanced than that. The circumstances you're describing occur only if you use Swiftmend immediately on CD every single time. If that's the case you're either in a bad group, or mis-using Swiftmend.

One of the its strengths is that the cooldown is ticking even if you have a charge available. For example, if you cast your first Swiftmend at 10 seconds into the pull, then don't need one for another 10 seconds you will only be 12 seconds away from being able to use it again. This talent benefits most when you don't need to cast Swiftmend on cd. I still prefer Abundance but that might be personal preference.
10/09/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Sevaryn
Cenarion is one of the most mana-efficient spells you have, can be put up long ahead of time so it's off cooldown in the middle of the pull (the 8s hot only starts ticking once they take damage), it's an extra layer of mastery boosting all hots on the tank, and it gives you a longer breather to DPS with wrath. All of this is crucial to M+, where speed, chain pulling, and extreme tank damage are the order of the day.

The extra swiftmend on Prosperity helps you carry one bad dps at the start of the pull, and that's pretty much it. The cooldown reduction isn't negligible by any means, but Cenarion beats it in the long term.

Germination is mediocre at best. You basically have to burn every single GCD and an assload of mana keeping 2x rejuv on the party because the duration is so criminally short, and ideally your DPS are keeping mobs locked down and avoiding mechanics so they don't take damage to begin with. In 5-mans Flourish is universally better. In raids Germination is an outright liability because it ooms you REAL hard just to use it, whereas Flourishing Tranq + WG means all your other healers have like 15-20 seconds to freely DPS, regen, take a Replenishment potion, etc. -- say, during Heroism or a crucial burn phase.


I really disagree about germination in 5 man mythic+..Flourish is for raiding, germination is king in mythic+.
I'm surprised nobody has suggested the OP take a look at Twitch.tv/Jdotb
10/15/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Noxana
I'm surprised nobody has suggested the OP take a look at Twitch.tv/Jdotb

I watch J.B a bit and admire what he does, Trellsky is another who runs with a resto druid that does similar.
However, i cant run his build as I pug most of my runs up to 12 atm and in most runs need every GCD to keep ppl alive.
I would not encourage resto druid to copy J.B. unless they had a tight group.
Things are a bit different in b
BFA, but nothing that cannot be overcome with understanding the encounters and what works well with others. Utilizing mastery stacks and understanding what makes our healing stronger is paramount, especially this week when tyrannical can put the hurt in a tank that does not use their cd’s right.

We are still gray in mythica, we just need to be more aware than we used to be on how to preemptively heal than reactionary.

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