Soo, grievous hotfix when?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
...

I mean, my damage is already pushed by those. I have to stop my casts to move or wasting big damage hits on an orb with little HP to make sure it dies.

The punishment is taking damage if I fail. And if I die, that is me doing ZERO damage while dead. If you think it's just punishing the healers because your job is to heal people... LOL


your tank was doing explosive wrong then. its the tanks job to kill them with their filler abilities.


Wat? go run a high key and see if you're tank can kill 6 explosives in time all at once. Tank can absolutely help. If you're doing snail pulls. Also tanks often have to Kite and there are mobs that teleport into range and spawn them far form the tank and the list goes on.
10/18/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Aerbota
I did two plus 11’s on two toons and was happy with the results. This week isn’t for the casual healers so if you aren’t main spec healer then you probably will skip out.


ur a monk :D

monks and druid pwn this affix. Priests...poor priests.
Did a +10, tank raged and left.
Did the +9, healer raged and left.
Now at +8, may not bother with it.
About to run 2 disc priests in a +9 ToS , will update

Update:

we broke the game in terms of dealing with grievous
I'm pretty sure blizzard designed the explosive affix with the 3 DPS roles of the group in mind, and also likely assuming that at least one of those DPS is ranged.

You can be certain of this because the orb health scales with difficulty (and fortified I think), can't be cleaved (so you can't just be lazy and be assured your passive aoe will take care of it) and can readily spawn away from the tank/melee.

But of course leave it to the community to rapidly min-max an idea in their head which amounts to as usual 'the tank will take care of it' or 'this one designated guy will take care of it always'.

Here's a solution, make the damage taken by explosive orbs ONLY affect the 3 DPS players and make the resulting damage literally unhealable (ie. the healer's healing has no effect, make the damage a debuff dot on the DPS player). Then DPS players will really step up and realize it is THEIR responsibility and can't be offload AGAIN to the tank/healer.
10/18/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Fendris
About to run 2 disc priests in a +9 ToS , will update

Update:

we broke the game in terms of dealing with grievous


during the beta I read various posts joking or serious that lots of groups were only able to deal with grievous by literally bringing 2 healing specs

it seems that joke has made it to live as a reality
10/18/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Valkür
10/18/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Fendris
About to run 2 disc priests in a +9 ToS , will update

Update:

we broke the game in terms of dealing with grievous


during the beta I read various posts joking or serious that lots of groups were only able to deal with grievous by literally bringing 2 healing specs

it seems that joke has made it to live as a reality


Yeah, unfortunately didn't chest it because of lightning orbs as usual with this place lol
10/18/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Valkür
I'm pretty sure blizzard designed the explosive affix with the 3 DPS roles of the group in mind, and also likely assuming that at least one of those DPS is ranged.

You can be certain of this because the orb health scales with difficulty (and fortified I think), can't be cleaved (so you can't just be lazy and be assured your passive aoe will take care of it) and can readily spawn away from the tank/melee.

But of course leave it to the community to rapidly min-max an idea in their head which amounts to as usual 'the tank will take care of it' or 'this one designated guy will take care of it always'.

Here's a solution, make the damage taken by explosive orbs ONLY affect the 3 DPS players and make the resulting damage literally unhealable (ie. the healer's healing has no effect, make the damage a debuff dot on the DPS player). Then DPS players will really step up and realize it is THEIR responsibility and can't be offload AGAIN to the tank/healer.


This sorta punishes healers for DPS failing still. The only way to counter DPS failing is to hit their DPS numbers, so what I'm suggesting is failing mechanic = DPS specific cripple for like 1 minute. Like bursting orb going out = Melee/ranged attack speed slowed by 100% / Casting speed increased 50%, etc. wherever the breakeven point is. Make it stack, too.
10/18/2018 03:48 PMPosted by Fendris
10/18/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Valkür
I'm pretty sure blizzard designed the explosive affix with the 3 DPS roles of the group in mind, and also likely assuming that at least one of those DPS is ranged.

You can be certain of this because the orb health scales with difficulty (and fortified I think), can't be cleaved (so you can't just be lazy and be assured your passive aoe will take care of it) and can readily spawn away from the tank/melee.

But of course leave it to the community to rapidly min-max an idea in their head which amounts to as usual 'the tank will take care of it' or 'this one designated guy will take care of it always'.

Here's a solution, make the damage taken by explosive orbs ONLY affect the 3 DPS players and make the resulting damage literally unhealable (ie. the healer's healing has no effect, make the damage a debuff dot on the DPS player). Then DPS players will really step up and realize it is THEIR responsibility and can't be offload AGAIN to the tank/healer.


This sorta punishes healers for DPS failing still. The only way to counter DPS failing is to hit their DPS numbers, so what I'm suggesting is failing mechanic = DPS specific cripple for like 1 minute. Like bursting orb going out = Melee/ranged attack speed slowed by 100% / Casting speed increased 50%, etc. wherever the breakeven point is. Make it stack, too.


This still punishes the healers as the fights take longer and they have to work that much longer/harder to deal with NPCs staying alive longer.
10/18/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Qodron
Not all damage is avoidable. It’s a healing output check, that’s what it’s designed for.


That's ridiculous. It's a derp test.

Almost all damage is avoidable except the tank if the instance is ran correctly.

I did a WM +8 with a group that was excellent and I rarely saw the debuff on anyone but the tank. On the rare mob or boss abilities maybe but not in general.

I did another WM 8 and all 4 had 5 stacks perma every trash pull.

Grievous is exposing players that are carried in others affixs.
10/18/2018 10:45 PMPosted by Kimbaxfr
10/18/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Qodron
Not all damage is avoidable. It’s a healing output check, that’s what it’s designed for.


That's ridiculous. It's a derp test.

Almost all damage is avoidable except the tank if the instance is ran correctly.

I did a WM +8 with a group that was excellent and I rarely saw the debuff on anyone but the tank. On the rare mob or boss abilities maybe but not in general.

I did another WM 8 and all 4 had 5 stacks perma every trash pull.

Grievous is exposing players that are carried in others affixs.


Some trash pulls sure but some of these adds have uninterruptable casts that half random peoples health. Also we are talking in the +10 and higher range since that is the cap that people are chasing. Go try a 10 motherload and come back. Cheers
Ran a FH8 yesterday to see what all the fuss was and double chested it.

Very noticeable spike in damage and made sure to chug healing potions and eat between pulls whenever I saw the healer around 10-25% mana.

Looking forward to my group's normal 10 and 11s this weekend. Gonna be aids but gonna be a challenge.

I do feel bad for healers though. This affix is horribly unforgiving.
Grievous is just fundamentally broken in some dungeons.

The last boss in SotS was not designed to work with grievous as pretty much every single mechanic works against it. Healed an 11 SotS last night and it was mostly manageable up until that boss where we ended up wiping 5 times.

The debuff healers are supposed to use to burn down the tank add simply can't be used this week because it doesn't actually reduce your max HP it just caps what % HP you can get healed to, so you just get more and more grievous stacks until you dispel it. This means even if you dodge every source of avoidable damage it's simply too risky to use and has to be dispelled immediately.

Even worse, the entire transition phase that separates the DPS from the healer is literally impossible in some comps. Without a !@#$ton of interrupts the second add will be almost certainly get his cast off which will automatically put stacks of grievous on all 3 of the DPS that makes them bleed to death before I'm even able to start healing them again. If you have a comp where none of the DPS can offheal you're going to have a real bad time.

Most attempts saw the DPS just slowly die while me and the tank desperately tried to burn down our add without the aid of the debuff that we're supposed to use to do it.

And don't even get me started on the little adds that run towards the boss. Their AoE explosion on death is overturned already, but once you add in the fact that the explosion needs to be healed back to full immediately to get rid of grievous and it's just impossible. We only managed to down this boss by cc'ing the adds until the next nightmare phase when they despawn.

And this was with a group that easily +2'd a 9, so it wasn't just a case of bad players not knowing how to play.
10/19/2018 09:25 AMPosted by Pwncess

And don't even get me started on the little adds that run towards the boss. Their AoE explosion on death is overturned already, but once you add in the fact that the explosion needs to be healed back to full immediately to get rid of grievous and it's just impossible. We only managed to down this boss by cc'ing the adds until the next nightmare phase when they despawn.


Just to give you a heads up, the adds don't actually despawn when you go into the sunken city phase. They still move towards the boss and reach him. They don't do damage since your team is phased from the boss, but he still gains energy. You can see once you come out of the sunken city phase that he is at 50 energy if you didnt kill the adds.
10/19/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Vareesa
10/19/2018 09:25 AMPosted by Pwncess

And don't even get me started on the little adds that run towards the boss. Their AoE explosion on death is overturned already, but once you add in the fact that the explosion needs to be healed back to full immediately to get rid of grievous and it's just impossible. We only managed to down this boss by cc'ing the adds until the next nightmare phase when they despawn.


Just to give you a heads up, the adds don't actually despawn when you go into the sunken city phase. They still move towards the boss and reach him. They don't do damage since your team is phased from the boss, but he still gains energy. You can see once you come out of the sunken city phase that he is at 50 energy if you didnt kill the adds.


Huh - neat! Before this week I've never actually left adds alive going into sunken city phase so I've never bothered looking much into mechanics, I just noticed they disappeared by the time we got out of sunken city phase and assumed they despawned. This week is the first time where the damage going out has been so absurd that I just have no way of catching up and getting everyone topped off before we get separated so fearing them was the only alternative.

As soon as grievous week ends I'll be going back to doing it properly and burning them down a few at a time.
10/19/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Pwncess

As soon as grievous week ends I'll be going back to doing it properly and burning them down a few at a time.


I am fairly sure that not killing them is actually the proper way to be doing this boss. The fight is designed around a debuff that increases your damage but decreases max health. The optimal strat is to just never dispel this debuff, so that everyone gets a huge damage boost, CC the adds and burn the boss. But if you don't dispel the debuff, killing even 1 add will wipe you.

Every damage source in the fight apart from tank melee hits is avoidable. The only time you can't get away with doing this strat is on quaking week.

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