3.2mill subs @Launch to Current 1.7mill

General Discussion
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10/19/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Ohgodmyeyes
10/19/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Rastlin
So @Blizzard_Ent launched a new API https://develop.battle.net/ recently and it was leaking player subscription end dates. You could iterate over all players and calculate active subs. At the start of #BfA we had 3.2m subs, now at 1.7m of which ~25% are secondary #BFA purchases

Sounds pretty compelling to me!

Because you want it to. That number was unsubstantiated at its source, the claim that it could even be done at all unsubstantiated, and even if it had been, there's no way to know whether or not the numbers shown were end dates for active recurring subscriptions only or not. Lots of folks pay with Tokens and game time purchases without a recurring subscription. That's why Blizzard said subscription numbers weren't an accurate measurement of the game's health in the first place.
Because you don't want it to, but to help prove my point that BFA is awful and you know it you have a lower il than I do and I have not played the game in a month or better, you spend all your time arguing on the forums. You have not done one raid boss not even lfr no rating in arena or rbgs all you do is m+4 and under and wq. You don't play the game you get triggered and argue on the forums like a sjw and white knight a game who has clearly said it doesnt want to be a mmorpg anymore and treats its fan base as if they are soccer moms playing a phone game.

I said in another thread that I'm in the "game is fine; having fun; not too stressed if I stopped liking it and move on to something else" camp but I do agree that Azerite has issues. However, claims that the system has failed or is not working is simply not true. Per my own experiences using the system to using my own experiences working on software development, I know what a failed system and Azerite is anything but. Lackluster? Sure. Uninteresting? Yep. Flat? Why not. Attach as many negative adjectives as you want to Azerite and I won't disagree.

The reason why balancing is being undertaken rather aggressively (but nowhere near a critical fashion) stems from two simple reasons: reduced timeframe in terms of the game's release (thus impacting existing in-game systems) and not enough testing iterations.

If you truly want to blame someone, blame Blizzard management. They're the ones who pushed for an aggressive release date (hence why they didn't probably didn't even have time to survey and take into account Alpha/ Beta feedback) hence why the game feels unfinished in many areas. But that was their plan all along: they have a two-year window to work and improve upon the game and they're doing it.

One year from now, all this toxicity and doomsday call will seem childish and people who are dissatisfied will have moved on and the systems will have been refined.


Just a question out of curiosity, do you agree with this business practice? I don't know how old you are, but this (along with microtransactions, DLC, etc.) is something rather new in the game industry that tracks to the rising costs of development.
10/19/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ohgodmyeyes
to help prove my point that BFA is awful and you know it you have a lower il than I do and I have not played the game in a month or better, you spend all your time arguing on the forums. You have not done one raid boss not even lfr no rating in arena or rbgs all you do is m+4 and under and wq. You don't play the game you get triggered and argue on the forums like a sjw and white knight a game who has clearly said it doesnt want to be a mmorpg anymore and treats its fan base as if they are soccer moms playing a phone game.

Aww, how cute. Argumentum ad hominem.

Still pushing the soccer mom thing, too. Did someone not buy you cleats as a child?
No Argumentum ad hominem you are avoiding the fact by trying to play the victim nobody called you anything. Just pointed out that you don't play the game and you spend all your time on the forums instead of the game. You can see this in the analytics the game provided us for your character and the post history. You just have no answer to why do you have a opinion greater than someone who actually plays they game? Because for a person who spends more time defending than playing you sure seem to go all out for this game. Or maybe it just another chance to virtue signal and be outraged.
I love all the salty !@#$%^s in this forum that whines about "fake" sub numbers.

You do realize WoTLK had 12 million subs, and it dropped all the way down to 1 million now, right?

Maybe you should face the facts that people know this game is utter -*!@.
10/19/2018 08:31 AMPosted by Sezy
Old news and an unproven leak. Need better source before I start freaking out.


Why would you freak out? 1.7 mil actually sounds about right times that by $15 plus micro transactions, and it would still be #1. This xpac has fallen off big time. The AH's are about barren now, along with (classic IE: Old content up to Legion), and if it were not for the sharding, you would notice this.

Im on Area52, and it is nowhere near full, ive had many people make toons on it while its "Full" and ive also NEVER had to wait in a Que to get in this expansion.
Blizzard throttles web service clients if they make more than 36,000 requests in 1 hour or 100 requests in 1 second.
https://develop.battle.net/documentation/guides/community-apis

This means it would have required nearly 89 hours to iterate through 3.2 million accounts.

The post implied that the new API had been made available the same day. Like a few hours earlier in that day.

Implied less than 24 hours
Actual time would have required nearly 89 hours

We really don't have a clue on subscriber numbers but that post was a 100% hoax.
10/19/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Ohgodmyeyes
...
Aww, how cute. Argumentum ad hominem.

Still pushing the soccer mom thing, too. Did someone not buy you cleats as a child?
No Argumentum ad hominem you are avoiding the fact by trying to play the victim nobody called you anything. Just pointed out that you don't play the game and you spend all your time on the forums instead of the game. You can see this in the analytics the game provided us for your character and the post history. You just have no answer to why do you have a opinion greater than someone who actually plays they game? Because for a person who spends more time defending than playing you sure seem to go all out for this game. Or maybe it just another chance to virtue signal and be outraged.


Nice!
10/19/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Undedløck

I said in another thread that I'm in the "game is fine; having fun; not too stressed if I stopped liking it and move on to something else" camp but I do agree that Azerite has issues. However, claims that the system has failed or is not working is simply not true. Per my own experiences using the system to using my own experiences working on software development, I know what a failed system and Azerite is anything but. Lackluster? Sure. Uninteresting? Yep. Flat? Why not. Attach as many negative adjectives as you want to Azerite and I won't disagree.

The reason why balancing is being undertaken rather aggressively (but nowhere near a critical fashion) stems from two simple reasons: reduced timeframe in terms of the game's release (thus impacting existing in-game systems) and not enough testing iterations.

If you truly want to blame someone, blame Blizzard management. They're the ones who pushed for an aggressive release date (hence why they didn't probably didn't even have time to survey and take into account Alpha/ Beta feedback) hence why the game feels unfinished in many areas. But that was their plan all along: they have a two-year window to work and improve upon the game and they're doing it.

One year from now, all this toxicity and doomsday call will seem childish and people who are dissatisfied will have moved on and the systems will have been refined.


Just a question out of curiosity, do you agree with this business practice? I don't know how old you are, but this (along with microtransactions, DLC, etc.) is something rather new in the game industry that tracks to the rising costs of development.


So, as a developer, when management comes to your PM (Project Manager) and tells him the big honchos have decided to accelerate the development timeline for X feature or Y feature or just the entire project, a few things happen:

1. A good PM will try to argue on behalf of his team the reservations he has about the decrease in development time. If he's really good, he can explain very well how this would impact the project's overall health. Essentially he'll fight for you and maybe be able to convince upper management that maybe accelerating the release date of whatever you're working on isn't in your best interest.

2. A mediocre/ bad PM will not care and is more interested in becoming one of the people who dictates the pace of a project (essentially more career-aspired than care for his workers) instead of making sure his team is being taken care of and that nothing too unreasonable is being demanded. At a moment's notice, he'll expect everyone to change tune, trash their work, move on, and start working 12 hours instead of 10.

Unfortunately, #2 is the reality of many software developers. Human aspirations of career advancement often trump caring for one's team members and all that matters to management is the end results, not the details. If one of them asks a project to be delivered on time and on budget, then an overzealous manager will try to deliver on-time and under budget.

Is this what happened at Blizzard? Probably. It's the game industry and notorious for abusing their developers. That's why I never, ever decided to even apply to a video-game company in the first place. Back on topic and on a final note: I believe that upper management told Ion he had to deliver a game as soon as Legion was released and he stuck to that schedule. Hence why so many things look unfinished: lack of time to test and scrub everything.

In regards to MTx and DLCs and other acute ways to charge the player with extra stuff: awful for the overall industry in general. Note that most developers aren't particularly supportive of such nickel-and-diming practices but they need to eat at the end of the day. The in-game monetization is coming back from individuals like Bobby Kotick and other CEOs of AAA gaming studios who don't care about video-games and only care about one thing: ROI and pleasing shareholders. Whether it's manufacturing or selling power tools, those guys are brought in to maximize profit at the expense of art, integrity, and honesty. That's not specific to the gaming industry but almost every industry and a big indication that capitalism is in a specific type of crisis where it's rapaciously eating itself to survive.
10/19/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Undedløck
I said in another thread that I'm in the "game is fine; having fun; not too stressed if I stopped liking it and move on to something else" camp but I do agree that Azerite has issues. However, claims that the system has failed or is not working is simply not true. Per my own experiences using the system to using my own experiences working on software development, I know what a failed system and Azerite is anything but. Lackluster? Sure. Uninteresting? Yep. Flat? Why not. Attach as many negative adjectives as you want to Azerite and I won't disagree.


Ok then "Failed, and broken Azerite system". So you agree then right? At least thats what i got out of this post lol.
10/19/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Tinkerizmo
Blizzard throttles web service clients if they make more than 36,000 requests in 1 hour or 100 requests in 1 second.
https://develop.battle.net/documentation/guides/community-apis

This means it would have required nearly 89 hours to iterate through 3.2 million accounts.

The post implied that the new API had been made available the same day. Like a few hours earlier in that day.

Implied less than 24 hours
Actual time would have required nearly 89 hours

We really don't have a clue on subscriber numbers but that post was a 100% hoax.



API clients are limited to 36,000 requests per hour at a rate of 100 requests per second. Exceeding the daily quota results in a 429 response error until the quota refreshes after an hour. Exceeding the per-second limit results in slower service until traffic drops down for one minute until the quota refreshes.


It really dont matter what the facts are the doomsayers will always prophecy doom. Giving validity to this kind of rhetoric only serves to further an agenda to bring down the game. If the mods are smart they will just start locking accounts that spam these threads. Give the posters what they want ...to quit wow.
10/19/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Snowfox
10/19/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Presumption
...

Agreed. The 1.7 million is like much higher than the actual numbers. I would be surprised if WoW is higher than a million right now.

Probably only half that at 500,000!

Of course, that's us being optimistic, and they're probably hiding that too.. so 125k?
But that's europe and us and asia.. so us is probably only like 50k.
Half of those probably don't even login, so it's probably just 25k!
Of those, they'll probably quit within a month, so probably just 11k.
Oh I forgot about multiboxers, so probably just 5k actual players.
Course alts too.. okay, so 2 thousand players.
Subtract the blues, shills, paid players, just 1 thousand players.
Of them, they'll probably quit after blizzcon disappointment so 500 players.
Yep, then some will quit as new games out, so just 250 players.
Totally totally forgot not all players even bought bfa, so just 100 bfa players.

Wow I can't believe only 100 people are playing wow.


You’d see it if you got off the forums every once in a while.
10/19/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Cuckchan
That's not specific to the gaming industry but almost every industry and a big indication that capitalism is in a specific type of crisis where it's rapaciously eating itself to survive.


So if this were a Communist, Socialist country, then the expansion would have been better? I mean because we all know how good the govt. is at running stuff(70 trillion in the hole with SS and medicare).

Just asking.
These threads are fun, it is always interesting to see into the thought processes of people who worry about things that have no effect on them at all.

Like sub numbers for a game they don’t make money off of. It makes me think the world is in a good place when this is all we have left to worry about(sarcasm)...enjoy the game or take a break folks.

GLHF!
10/19/2018 04:14 PMPosted by Ravius
These threads are fun, it is always interesting to see into the thought processes of people who worry about things that have no effect on them at all.

Like sub numbers for a game they don’t make money off of. It makes me think the world is in a good place when this is all we have left to worry about(sarcasm)...enjoy the game or take a break folks.

GLHF!


It does have an effect, because how long are they going to keep making the game? Sub loss does matter because friends go away, guilds break up and people never return. I've seen strong guilds I never thought would end just die, when my old server died it broke my heart, so excuse me for caring about people leaving the game.
Does it matter? We all know players are leaving the game because they're not liking it. Let's just be honest for a moment this isn't the "best" expansion. When someone said beta of Azeroth around launch I laughed, now I don't laugh I get annoyed because it was true.

You might say that there is a LOT of content but really there isn't it. It's a grind on top of a grind(which is normal for a mmo!) however in wow bfa it's so boring. Just logging in every day feels like a job. I can only speak for myself and I'm not having fun at all in this expansion.

I'm sure half a year or longer down the road the expansion will be "fine" ie out of the beta stage. You know when we maybe have 4-5 war fronts a bunch of raids and hopefully a more friendly mythic+ community(yeah right).
10/19/2018 08:32 AMPosted by Snowfox
Yeah we all knew that "1.7 rumor" was going to end up being pushed by people with an agenda who didn't give a damn about actual facts.


It's as easy to believe 1.7 million as it is to believe 3, 5, 7 million. 1.7 seems much more likely given the lack of old friends that I see still playing. Or given the people I've seen while leveling an alt - next to none.

Let's all just come to grips with the fact that the game has lost it's staying power.
10/19/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Snowfox
10/19/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Nazjira
...

I don't think you get to talk about the actual facts when you don't have the actual facts

The actual facts are that the 1.7 million number is already completely disproven.

I'm not claiming to know the sub count. I'm only claiming that the 1.7M thing was completely and utterly disproven and anyone pushing it now is just pushing an agenda rather than facts.


If by "disproven" you mean Blizzard saying "nothing to see here, move along" then sure.
10/19/2018 03:47 PMPosted by Xìn
No Argumentum ad hominem you are avoiding the fact by trying to play the victim nobody called you anything.

I don't think you understand what argumentum ad hominem is. You can't dispute my argument, so instead you're trying to discredit me by attacking my in-game activities.

That's textbook ad hominem.

If you want to believe subs are low, believe it all you want. It's not true, and I'll continue to state that it's not true, but you do you, bud.
There is always some chunk of expansion players that show up, then leave after 1-2x 30 day game subs, so it isn't entirely unexpected or anything. That being said, some of the 'smaller' servers I play on are back to being nearly empty, and while a lot of game systems are set up to ignore servers at this point, you really do miss out on a lot by being on one of the nearly 180+ low population servers. What happened to the next set of realm connections Blizzard was working on?
Ten years going strong, and still a loyal player. Cya all in the whiny forums in another 5 years!

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